Civil War (The War Between The States)

Historical Events & People

Moderator: NefariousNed

Re: Civil War (The War Between The States)

Postby NefariousNed on Wed Sep 20, 2017 3:06 pm

‘Idea’ should replace ‘Lee’ name
NEISD seeks public input on what to rename high school

By Lauren Caruba STAFF WRITER
San Antonio Express News
Wednesday, September 20, 2017

The North East Independent School District is accepting public input for a new name for Robert E. Lee High
School, but wants the suggestions to not include individuals.

NEISD trustees voted Monday night to open a weeklong submission window, the first step toward renaming
the school after the board’s unanimous Aug. 29 decision to remove the name of the Confederate general.

According to guidelines set by trustees, nominations should “reflect an idea, not a person.” The district
cited another NEISD school, the Academy of Creative Education, as an appropriate example.

The submissions window will close Monday night. The district expects the name change to be implemented
at the end of this school year.

“Name submissions should embody a wholesome image that would be expected to stand the test of time,”
reads the description on the online portal. “A proposed name should be welcoming and identifiable to the
general public.”

After the public input period closes, Superintendent Brian Gottardy expects to compile a list of potential
names and provide it to trustees before the regular meeting in October so the board will have an
opportunity to vote on a new name at that meeting. After that, Lee’s principal and other school staff
will be responsible for handling details such as selecting a new mascot and renaming spirit groups within
the school.

Gottardy said at Monday’s meeting that district staff had been in “deep discussions” about the impending
name change over the past few weeks, resulting in the recommendation that the new name not reflect a
specific person.

“We truly believe that the idea of naming it after a particular person is volatile at this particular stage,”
he said.

Trustee Edd White asked if that meant the board would be setting aside a decades-old policy the district
had for naming new high schools after national figures. Board President Shannon Grona noted that the policy
was for new schools, not renaming schools, but acknowledged that the district should rescind the existing
policy for future use, which the board ultimately did in its final vote.

The name of Lee High School, which houses several magnet programs: STEM Academy, the North East School
of the Arts and the International School of the Americas, has been a contentious point of debate within the
district. Last month’s vote was the second time the board had considered the issue, after deciding against
changing the school’s name in 2015.

The decision came on the heels of violent clashes sparked by white supremacist demonstrations in Virginia
over a statue of Lee there, and the same week that San Antonio City Council voted to remove a statue
honoring Confederate soldiers from Travis Park. Twitter: @LaurenCaruba
The "OUTSIDE THE ALAMO, Songs of Ned Huthmacher Performed by John Beland" CD Facebook page:
User avatar
Posts: 53197
Joined: Wed Sep 24, 2008 9:48 pm

Re: Civil War (The War Between The States)

Postby NefariousNed on Wed Sep 20, 2017 3:23 pm

Straus wants Confederate marker ousted

San Antonio Express News
Wednesday, September 20, 2017
ConfederateMonumenrtsAustin-ExpressNews.jpg (83.32 KiB) Viewed 413 times

AUSTIN — House Speaker Joe Straus called Tuesday for the removal of a “blatantly inaccurate” Confederate plaque
at the state Capitol that denies slavery led to Texas secession.

“We have an obligation to all the people we serve to ensure that our history is described correctly, especially when
it comes to a subject as painful as slavery,” Straus, R-San Antonio, wrote in a letter to fellow members of the State
Preservation Board.

The six-member board, led by Republican Gov. Greg Abbott, is in charge of preserving and maintaining the state
Capitol complex.

“I do hope that we can quickly form a consensus to begin the process of removing the blatantly inaccurate plaque
on the Capitol’s first floor,” Straus wrote.

His letter marks the first time a board member has publicly urged removal of a Confederate symbol in wake of a
renewed push to take down such imagery following deadly protests in Charlottesville, Virginia.

Rep. Eric Johnson, D-Dallas, who in August asked for the immediate removal of the plaque, which is installed near
his office, and a review of all other Confederate symbols at the Capitol, said Straus’ letter was a welcome surprise.

“He kept his cards pretty close to the vest. He didn't tell me he was going to take a particular position, but he was
definitely listening to the arguements I was making,” Johnson said of past text conversations with Straus about
the issue. “I expect others are going to come on board and I expect the plaque is going to come down.”

Half of the six State Preservation Board members, however, have voiced opposition to removing monuments, saying
the state should learn from its past instead of trying to bury it.

The plaque was mounted on a first-floor wall of the Capitol in 1959 by the Texas Division of the Children of the
Confederacy. It reads in part: “We therefore pledge ourselves … to study and teach the truths of history (one of the
most important of which is that the war between the states was not a rebellion, nor was its underlying cause to
sustain slavery).”

At the time Texas seceded, however, the need to defend slavery was cited as the primary reason for taking the
drastic action, according to Walter Buenger, chief historian at the Texas State Historical Association.

In the 1950s, there was a surge in new Confederate memorials as a form of protest against the civil rights
movement and school desegregation, he told the San Antonio Express-News this summer.

Abbott agreed to meet with Johnson to discuss the issue, but the pair had to postpone after Hurricane Harvey
hit, Johnson said. A new date has not yet been set.

Abbott’s office didn’t return requests for comment on Straus’ letter.

The first-term governor has condemned the racially charged violence in Virginia, but has said that “tearing
down monuments won’t erase our nation’s past, and it doesn’t advance our nation’s future.”

Another board member, Rep. Charlie Geren, R- Fort Worth, said Tuesday he hasn’t read the plaque in years
and can’t comment on it specifically.

“I am one of the people who says you can't erase history. You can learn from it and go forward,” he said. “If
there's some inaccuracies, I think they should be corrected or removed.”

Other board members, including Lt. Gov. Dan Patrick and Sen. Lois Kolkhorst, R-Brenham, did not return
requests for comment about the plaque. Patrick has said previously “the goal is to learn from history, all of
our history, including events and times that many would like to forget.”

Public representative Iris Moore of Fort Worth could not be reached for comment.

Straus’ office didn’t respond to questions about the letter’s timing, which he sent about a month after
Johnson wrote to the State Preservation Board asking for the plaque’s removal.

At the time, Straus’ spokesman indicated the speaker “would like to see a review of the accuracy of signs
and monuments around the Capitol.”

In the one-page letter sent Tuesday, Straus called for the plaque’s removal, citing concern with its historical

“The plaque says that the Civil War was not an act of rebellion and was not primarily about slavery,” he
wrote. “This is not accurate, and Texans are not well-served by incorrect information about our history.”

Johnson is one of several state legislators pressing for a new review of the roughly one dozen Confederate
statues, monuments and plaques scattered across the Capitol complex.

Efforts in Texas to remove Confederate imagery have accelerated, as they have in many cities across the
country, after racially charged protests in Charlottesville over a statue of Robert E. Lee that left one woman
dead and many more injured.

The city of San Antonio this month removed the statue of an unknown Confederate soldier — along with its
pedestal — in Travis Park.
The "OUTSIDE THE ALAMO, Songs of Ned Huthmacher Performed by John Beland" CD Facebook page:
User avatar
Posts: 53197
Joined: Wed Sep 24, 2008 9:48 pm

Re: Civil War (The War Between The States)

Postby warren on Wed Sep 20, 2017 5:45 pm

What if they just change "Confederacy" to "Losing Team", and delete that nonsense in parenthesis? Would that be ok?
Posts: 201
Joined: Thu Aug 04, 2016 6:23 pm

Re: Civil War (The War Between The States)

Postby NefariousNed on Tue Oct 10, 2017 11:52 am

LEESchoolExpressNew10-10-17.jpg (60.16 KiB) Viewed 328 times

Homonym of Confederate general’s name rattles supporters of change

By Lauren Caruba STAFF WRITER

Photos by Edward A. Ornelas / San Antonio Express-News

Legacy of Educational Excellence High School.

Effective next school year, that’s the new name North East Independent School District trustees, by a 5-2 vote Monday, decided will
replace Lee High School, the name it has held since it opened in 1958.

When they voted unanimously in August that the name would change, several board members made it clear they didn’t think honoring
the Confederate general was inappropriate but wanted to avoid the distraction of an ongoing controversy. Violent white supremacist
protests in Virginia had rekindled the national debate about memorializing the Confederacy, including Lee, its most prominent military

It seemed an open question whether Monday’s vote will end the debate over the school’s name. By design, it harkens to the original
when used as an acronym — LEE — which drew both support and brickbats.

Board President Shannon Grona made the motion, which also maintains the Volunteers as the school’s mascot, calling it a compromise
that would retain the school’s history while minimizing the complication and expense of reprinting and repainting a new name.

“We can honor the legacy of the past,” Grona said. “It is my hope that changing the name to Legacy of Educational Excellence will
minimize the financial burden and help the community heal.”

Edd White, a trustee who voted to rename the school when the board first grappled with the issue two years ago, said keeping
Confederate Gen. Robert E. Lee associated with the school in any form defeated the idea of changing the school’s culture.

“I just think we’re trying to put lipstick on a pig if you’re gonna still have the acronym LEE,” he said.

The board asked the public to submit ideas after its August vote, then selected the new name out of a pared down list of 542
suggestions. Board members had asked that the new name reflect an idea, rather than an individual, but had to eliminate 1,900 of
more than 2,400 submissions for vulgarity or not adhering to the requirements.

Over the years, White said, the district had attempted to make Lee a more “palatable” figure by stripping away the corresponding
Civil War symbolism from its athletic teams and spirit groups — the Confederate battle flag on uniforms, and, more recently, the
band’s renditions of “Dixie” during football games.

“We’ve tried to clean it up,” he said. “And it didn’t work. And it may not work this time.”

Immediately after the vote, three seniors on the girls’ soccer team stormed outside, sobbing.

“I have never been so mad about anything in my life,” said Kendall Kloza, a student enrolled in the STEM Academy, a magnet
program at the campus along with the International School of the Americas and the North East School of the Arts.

The girls described an environment after the board’s Aug. 29 vote in which students questioned what “side” classmates were on
and sat in class accordingly. They said only a small number of mainly NESA students wanted the name change.

The Lee name is “our spirit and our pride, and it’s the only thing we have left,” said Selah Evans, an ISA student.

The girls said students at other NEISD schools have made fun of their school as being run down and “ghetto.” The district should
have used the money for changing the name to update facilities at the school, which has one field for its nine sports, they argued.

Monday’s meeting repeated the 2015 division on the board, when it voted 5-2 against changing the name. Students had circulated
competing online petitions over the name after a white supremacist gunned down nine black congregants in Charleston, South
Carolina. The two trustees who favored the change that year, White and Jim Wheat, both voted against Monday’s motion. The
change was inadequate, they said.

But the other board members, including its new District 3 trustee, Joseph Trevino, followed Grona’s lead. Trustee Sandy Hughey
said it was important to remember that the school was a large community of students, parents and alumni. The acronym LEE would
acknowledge that community and set a precedent that “we support the past, we support the future,” she said.

When they voted in August to change the name, trustees acknowledged that times had changed, citing student safety and the risk
of disruption as the primary reasons for setting a new course.

But if the vote two years ago wasn’t permanent, wondered Tim Adams, a Class of 1979 graduate, why would this one be? He called
the board “out of touch” for not interpreting the many inappropriate name suggestions they had received as a signal that many
wanted to keep the name.

“What’s the point?” asked Adams, 56. “Because you really haven’t changed anything.”
LEESchoolExpressNew10-10-17-1.jpg (37.27 KiB) Viewed 328 times
The "OUTSIDE THE ALAMO, Songs of Ned Huthmacher Performed by John Beland" CD Facebook page:
User avatar
Posts: 53197
Joined: Wed Sep 24, 2008 9:48 pm

Re: Civil War (The War Between The States)

Postby SantaClaus on Tue Oct 10, 2017 1:39 pm

"Legacy of Educational Excellence High School"? How about just shortening that to "Legacy of Excellence High School", or "LE School", for a classy French-sounding international flavor. At every LE School function, let them eat cake. Change the school mascot from the Volunteers to the Gay Parisians. :lol:

The compromise of changing Lee to LEE was doomed to fail. It was enough of a change to upset the defenders of the old name and is too much like the old name to satisfy those who wanted the name changed. Besides, "LEE" sounds like a brand of blue jeans. If they're going to change the name to disassociate the school from Robert E. Lee and all things Confederate, then name it after someone associated with San Antonio, someone who might make a good role model for the students and staff. They could keep the Volunteer mascot by naming the school after a San Antonio resident who volunteered to serve in the military during the first or second World War. Find a heroic World War volunteer from S.A. who was a shining example to those around him through his sacrifice. Make sure he wasn't a criminal, wasn't a member of the KKK, was successful and hardworking in civilian life, and was charitable to friends and strangers. No politicians, no political activists, just a man or woman who volunteered when civilian and military duty called.
Surely, there is someone, famous or not, in San Antonio's history who fills the bill. :)
User avatar
Posts: 1759
Joined: Fri Jul 03, 2015 4:43 pm
Location: Austin, TX

Re: Civil War (The War Between The States)

Postby NefariousNed on Tue Oct 10, 2017 1:45 pm

Well again, the criteria was that the new name of the school reflect an idea, not a person.
The "OUTSIDE THE ALAMO, Songs of Ned Huthmacher Performed by John Beland" CD Facebook page:
User avatar
Posts: 53197
Joined: Wed Sep 24, 2008 9:48 pm

Re: Civil War (The War Between The States)

Postby cc nolen on Wed Oct 11, 2017 3:03 pm

Robert E Lee is sitting on a cloud laughing!
It really is a shock to me on just how many schools in this Nation are named Robert E Lee. We have a Middle School here in Monroe LA. that is Robert E Lee Jr. High. No one has said anything about change yet. :?:
The largest High School in my State is here in my home town of West Monroe. It is known as West Monroe High School and has around 2300 kids attending. Its Mascot is, > you guessed it....The Rebels! :o
User avatar
cc nolen
Posts: 10559
Joined: Thu Oct 21, 2010 10:04 pm
Location: West Monroe, Louisiana.......Land of Bowie

Re: Civil War (The War Between The States)

Postby SantaClaus on Wed Oct 11, 2017 4:14 pm

NefariousNed wrote:Well again, the criteria was that the new name of the school reflect an idea, not a person.

Sorry. I didn't notice the criteria until you pointed it out. Hmmm. That's a tough one. Even ideas can be controversial.
How about, "Live And Learn High School"? Or "High School of Hard Knocks" or "Work Hard and Succeed High School" ?
User avatar
Posts: 1759
Joined: Fri Jul 03, 2015 4:43 pm
Location: Austin, TX

Re: Civil War (The War Between The States)

Postby warren on Wed Oct 11, 2017 6:03 pm

True story:

It was, I think 1974, because I was a freshman in college and the girl I dated was a senior in one of our hometown high schools, being South Garland High School (outside of Dallas, Texas).

South Garland High School were the "Colonels", and their mascot was a Confederate Colonel in full uniform. Rebel flags were everywhere and especially during football games. School colors were grey and gold. Every year, at homecoming football game, they crowned the "Colonel and His Lady". They were so elected because they were the most popular people in the senior year class. The most popular guy, who I recall was named Craig Washington, was black, very handsome and he was loved by everyone in this very predominately white high school. The Lady was white and was strikingly beautiful. So I go as my girlfriend's date to the presentation. At presentation, Craig was in full Confederate Uniform with sword and sash. Rene', the Lady, was in an antebellum formal hoop skirt. Everyone wildly applauded, cheered, standing ovation, etc, including me. But I wondered if I was the only one who thought it was a tad ironic. Off hand, I couldn't think of any black Confederate colonels, especially with white woman as their "Lady", but maybe I'm wrong.

And you know what? Life went on. I haven't looked to see what South Garland has done since then regarding the school theme.
Posts: 201
Joined: Thu Aug 04, 2016 6:23 pm

Re: Civil War (The War Between The States)

Postby NefariousNed on Sun Oct 15, 2017 4:07 pm

WUSANews9 ... sHj3zBBKeA


Cedar Creek, Virginia
Author: Mike Valerio
Published: 10/12/17
It’s a pastoral field where the dust settled from war nearly 153 years ago. In the years since,
families have congregated among the farms and fields of Cedar Creek, where an annual
reenactment of the October battle has proceeded uninterrupted for 26 years.

But for the first time, a letter threatened harm to the participants and spectators, a threat
now investigated by the FBI and Frederick County Sheriff’s Office.

“We would like to make everyone aware that the Cedar Creek Battlefield Foundation has
received a letter threatening bodily harm to attendants of this event,” reads a note posted
on the foundation’s website. “With this in mind security has been increased and we ask that
everyone work with us for a safe and enjoyable event”

The letter arrived three weeks ago, with local and federal law enforcement officials now
working to determine if the threat was politically motivated. No arrests have been made.

“The reenactment is a family event with no political ideology,” said Joe D’Arezzo, president
of the Cedar Creek Battlefield Foundation. “We strive to educate all Americans about our
shared history and the great costs to bring freedom to all of those Americans.”

A spokesperson from the FBI field office in Richmond confirmed the Bureau’s assistance
Wednesday, but could not comment on the findings or efforts to trace the letter back to its

Authorities stressed the concern over the threat was low enough to continue with Saturday’s

The reenactment portrays the events of the Battle of Cedar Creek, which began as a surprise
attack by Confederate troops and ultimately ended in Union victory.

The October 19, 1864 battle gave President Abraham Lincoln the momentum to win a second
term twenty days later.
The "OUTSIDE THE ALAMO, Songs of Ned Huthmacher Performed by John Beland" CD Facebook page:
User avatar
Posts: 53197
Joined: Wed Sep 24, 2008 9:48 pm

Re: Civil War (The War Between The States)

Postby warren on Sun Oct 15, 2017 5:09 pm

A group of gun and knife -toting re-enactors would be among the last people I'd be sending threats to.
Posts: 201
Joined: Thu Aug 04, 2016 6:23 pm

Re: Civil War (The War Between The States)

Postby SantaClaus on Sun Oct 15, 2017 7:36 pm ... /483542566

Looking into this story, I came across a newer story (see link) that says a pipe bomb has been discovered at the site where this Civil War battle reenactment was to take place. Don't know who is responsible for this, whether it's a personal gripe or a political gripe, but whoever is behind this has some kind of screw loose. Hope authorities get to the bottom of it quickly.

p.s. After my initial post about a pipe bomb being discovered on the battle field where the reenactment was to take place, I've come across a couple of more stories claiming that the pipe bomb was placed in the Confederate camp. Sometimes these early news stories turn out to be incorrect, but if it is true that the bomb was placed only in the Confederate camp, then it appears that someone is still fighting the Civil War and that person can't tell the difference between a real battle and reenactment. :?
User avatar
Posts: 1759
Joined: Fri Jul 03, 2015 4:43 pm
Location: Austin, TX

Re: Civil War (The War Between The States)

Postby warren on Wed Oct 18, 2017 4:07 pm

I doubt it will be hard for the FBI to crack this case. Hope they throw the book at whoever did it.
Posts: 201
Joined: Thu Aug 04, 2016 6:23 pm

Re: Civil War (The War Between The States)

Postby NefariousNed on Sun Oct 29, 2017 12:54 pm

San Antonio Express News, Sunday, October 29, 2017
TravisParkConfederateMonument.jpg (102.69 KiB) Viewed 139 times

A local chapter of the United Daughters of the Confederacy has sued San Antonio and city officials over the removal from Travis Park of the statue memorializing fallen Confederate soldiers.

In a federal lawsuit, the organization’s Albert Sidney Johnston chapter No. 2060 said it did not receive due process to challenge the decision.

It accused the city of damaging the monument during the removal and said officials have yet to disclose what was done with it or hold a public discussion about the removal.

The suit claims violations of the First, Fifth and 14th amendments, and seeks unspecified monetary damages and attorney’s fees.

It said chapter President Robin Terrazas of Helotes tried to meet with Mayor Ron Nirenberg prior to the statue’s removal but he declined. Instead, Terrazas was told by a city staffer to appear at a City Council meeting to make her voice heard, the lawsuit states.

Crews removed the statue of a Confederate soldier, with its inscription dedicating it to “Our Confederate Dead” and its two accompanying Civil War cannons, on Sept. 1 shortly after the City Council ordered it by a 10-1 vote.

The removal came during a national debate over the appropriateness of such monuments, which critics argued were erected across the South as a way to bolster Jim Crow racism by romanticizing a slave-holding past.

Besides the city, the lawsuit names as defendants those who voted for its removal — Nirenberg and nine members of the City Council: Roberto Treviño, William Shaw, Rebecca Viagran, Rey Saldaña, Shirley Gonzales, Greg Brockhouse, Ana Sandoval, Manny Pelaez and John Courage.

The lone dissenting vote was by District 10 Councilman Clayton Perry, who had expressed an issue with the timing being so close to Hurricane Harvey, and that the decision circumvented the Historic Design Commission, which handles historic monuments in San Antonio.

A spokesman for the mayor said Wednesday that Nirenberg was out of the country, had not seen the lawsuit and wouldn’t be able to comment on it. The city declined comment because the suit had not been officially served, adding that the City Attorney’s office can’t comment on pending litigation.

The suit said members of the now-defunct Barnard E. Bee chapter of the UDC held bake sales and other public fundraisers to earn $3,000 in the 1890s to help pay for the statue, which was erected in 1900. In today’s dollars, it would cost more than $81,000 to replace the monument, the suit says.

The suit also said the Bee chapter placed a time capsule under the statue’s foundation that included a roster of the chapter’s membership, Confederate currency and coins; a Confederate flag bearing the name “Jeff Davis” in a wreath of violets; pressed flowers from the coffin of Confederate President Jefferson Davis’ daughter, Varina Anne “Winnie” Davis; newspapers; and an Old Testament kept by a Confederate soldier in a Union prison.

It was unclear if the city was aware that that a time capsule had been buried under the statue.

“The city of San Antonio gave use of the land underneath the monument to the Barnard E. Bee chapter in 1899 in ‘perpetuity,’” the lawsuit states.

The Bee chapter closed because of declining membership, but the Johnston chapter “succeeded to the property and interests” of the Bee chapter, and neither chapter “ever gave or donated the common Confederate soldier monument to any entity,” the suit said. Both chapters were named for Confederate generals killed during the war.

The suit defended the statue, saying it did not contain markings or signage referring to the former Confederate States of America or to any of its leaders.

“The Daughters have no idea where their statue is or in what condition it may be,” the suit said. “The members of the ASJ chapter No. 2060 have no idea where their time capsule is or where the contents are. The UDC has been excluded from the community discussion.”
The "OUTSIDE THE ALAMO, Songs of Ned Huthmacher Performed by John Beland" CD Facebook page:
User avatar
Posts: 53197
Joined: Wed Sep 24, 2008 9:48 pm


Return to Other Historical Events & People

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest