The Film Set & Location.

Discussion On All Aspects Of The Film.

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Re: The Film Set & Location.

Postby RLC-GTT on Fri Nov 07, 2008 3:14 am

I just noticed that, even though the website formatting cuts off the right edge of a wide picture, you get the whole picture if you save it to a folder on your hard drive. That first Tex Beneke-like photo is complete when saved. And yes, Craig, I think that high angle is the actual shot used for the album. I've always loved that cover.
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Re: The Film Set & Location.

Postby RLC-GTT on Fri Nov 07, 2008 3:17 am

Nefarious wrote:Image
Rich, that "vertical streaking" you mention has been in every Alamo postcard and photograph since people began photographing the place.


...except for any modern postcard taken of the current squeaky-clean Alamo. All signs of life and stuggle have been anticeptically removed, resulting in the current homogenized real-life computer image of a once glorious facade. :cry:
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Re: The Film Set & Location.

Postby Seguin on Fri Nov 07, 2008 5:21 am

RLC-GTT wrote:I just noticed that, even though the website formatting cuts off the right edge of a wide picture, you get the whole picture if you save it to a folder on your hard drive. That first Tex Beneke-like photo is complete when saved.


That´s right! I often have that problem, although my screen solution is 1024 X 768, which should be quite normal to have. It even happens when I post regular photo´s here, in size 10 x 15 cm. Anyway, as you say, you get the whole picture if you save to a folder on your computer. I sometimes do that with pictures I have no intention of saving, just to see whole picture. After that, I delete it.

- Great picture of the Waynamo, Chaska! Thanks...
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Re: The Film Set & Location.

Postby Reb_Al on Sat Nov 08, 2008 2:10 pm

Image
Image
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Re: The Film Set & Location.

Postby Chaska on Sat Nov 08, 2008 8:28 pm

Hey Reb, where did you get the Life fold-out image without a seam down the middle? Did you get one of the "rolled" prints, or did you do a little Photoshop "repairing?"
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Re: The Film Set & Location.

Postby Reb_Al on Sun Nov 09, 2008 12:34 pm

Chaska wrote:Hey Reb, where did you get the Life fold-out image without a seam down the middle? Did you get one of the "rolled" prints, or did you do a little Photoshop "repairing?"


I bought it off ebay, very cheap, and yes I erased the line down the middle with Photoshop, enlarged, printed and framed it. I love the picture.
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Re: The Film Set & Location.

Postby RLC-GTT on Mon Nov 10, 2008 2:01 am

Image

This was the first image I saw of the Waynamo and I cherish it. I did get one from Russell Birdwell Company in a tube without the seam. Alas, I had the crassness to cut it to fit a frame and lost its full format. Of course, if you really look at it, the painting as presented in the Life, July 4, 1960, gatefold ad is only a detail of the original Main Title Art. This painting has Travis' H.Q. on the left edge and another carronade to the left. When I finally saw the full format on the back of Steve Frazee's far-better-than-the-film-script book, I could even detect where they "airbrushed" out (days before PhotoShop) the muzzle of the carronade -- it's the darker smudge at the very left edge of the picture half way up the wall to the left of the highest portion of broken off plaster. Great, passion-filled painting. I also have a 35mm. slide that Michael Wayne sent me that has the original real image the painting was done from.
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Re: The Film Set & Location.

Postby Fargo Fenwyck on Mon Nov 10, 2008 4:33 pm

The paintings used for advertising movies in the old days was truly an art form which is sadly neglected today. The movie poster of "The Alamo" has fantastic detail. The image used fro the opening credits of the chapel is simply awesome. There is so much about this film that was special and great care went into overall production.
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Re: The Film Set & Location.

Postby Alamo John UK on Tue Nov 11, 2008 2:22 am

I have a question for Rich, (or anyone else who can answer it ?) a little while ago there was a discussion on where the caliche pit that was dug for the adobe bricks is located and there was mention it was just behind the false wall and near an airstrip that was built to get the daily rushes back to Hollywood.

I was trying to see if I could find it on Google Earth and was wondering if this is it ?
Image

a slightly closer view.

Image
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Re: The Film Set & Location.

Postby mrbassbone on Tue Nov 11, 2008 4:13 am

That has the makings of what to MY wandering eyes appears to be...the remnants of the old landing strip.
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Re: The Film Set & Location.

Postby RLC-GTT on Wed Nov 12, 2008 2:03 am

Image

John, the air strip used to start immediately across the main dirt road from the false wall (almost correctly marked on your photo -- it's actually to the right about 100 feet farther down the road) and ran along side the road (on the south side) to the beginning of the next hill -- about 1000 feet. What you marked as the airstrip is actually the stock tank (a lake) surrounded on the NW and W by an earth dam. The tank was the lake you saw to the left of the Tucker Ranch house in Bad Girls. The house stood about 100 feet NE from the cul-de-sac at the bottom end of the dam.

By the way, for any of you uninitiated who might come out, you may NOT go out there without special permission and a guide. Only the Alamo and the Village are accessible to tourists.
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Re: The Film Set & Location.

Postby Alamo John UK on Wed Nov 12, 2008 7:28 pm

Thanks Rich, that gives me a much better idea of what I'm looking at, it surprises me though that no evidence of the airstrip remains, especially from the air, perhaps there may be something of it still visible if you know what your looking for at ground level ?

Thanks again for your swift reply.
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Re: The Film Set & Location.

Postby NefariousNed on Tue Nov 18, 2008 7:13 pm

Image
John and Mo on the airstrip side of the road with the false wall in the background.
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Re: The Film Set & Location.

Postby NefariousNed on Tue Nov 18, 2008 7:14 pm

Image
Looking east, from the edge of the caliche pit toward the back of the false wall.
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Re: The Film Set & Location.

Postby NefariousNed on Tue Nov 18, 2008 7:18 pm

Image
Looking west, from the back of the false wall toward the caliche pit. The adobe used for the construction of both the Alamo compound
and Alamo Village was dug here. Just to give you your bearings, that white dot silhouetted against Pinto Mountain in the far distance
is the tower of the San Fernando church in the Village.
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Re: The Film Set & Location.

Postby RLC-GTT on Wed Nov 19, 2008 2:47 am

Image

The back bluff of the caliche pit is what you can see in the background of the still of the Trinity standing with the cannon. I think it is
the one where you can see the apple box under Laurence Harvey and the special effect canister under the cannon.
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Re: The Film Set & Location.

Postby Chaska on Tue Nov 25, 2008 7:55 am

It's time for another of my favorite photos of the set that I doubt many have seen before:
Image
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Re: The Film Set & Location.

Postby Chaska on Tue Nov 25, 2008 9:07 am

Image
In this revealing shot, one can see by the tipped over prop "gabion" that the film ones were empty baskets with a plywood "lid" a few inches from the top, onto which was placed a thin layer some dirt and rocks. In actual use a gabion is not a movable "basket," but a ring of upright stakes driven deep into the ground with saplings woven between the stakes and then filled with earth and stones. The movie ones made it possible to easily move them and open up the palisade to allow trucks, personnel, and equipment to be quickly and easily brought into (and out of) the fort. This was part of Al Ybarra's smart plan to build practicality into the set. Also, knowing that scenes needed to be shot with the palisade under construction, and that scenes might have to be shot "out-of-sequence," he dug a trench to the proper dimensions so that the logs of the barricade would slide right into position, then covered the trench over with sheets of heavy plywood and scattered dirt over the plywood. Instead of shooting being held up to dig holes for the posts as the palisade progressed, any configuration or length of the barrier could be arranged in minutes.

Notice the big cardboard box labeled "trash" behind the cannon; the big spot lights on the scaffolding; and what appears to be a mortar "pot" on the lower left corner. These heavy metal cones or tapered, welded "pots" are buried in the earth up to their rims, and a powder charge placed in the bottom is then covered with "Fuller's Earth" - a light, sifted, peat-mossy material. Some rough chunks of cork (to simulate stones), and a thin dusting of the local dirt to blend in with the ground are then layered on. During a scene, the charge is fired electrically, and sends up an explosion with an impressive cloud of dirt, dust, and what appear to be rocks or adobe chunks. It looks lethal, but is relatively safe to use around actors and stuntmen. Needless to say, he Alamo production used a lot of these!

Notice too, that the "X" or "cross" is absent from the top of the church. It may have been over at the "false chapel" top at this time for the shooting of the rest of the scenes involving the principals on the roof of the building.
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Re: The Film Set & Location.

Postby MUSTANG on Tue Nov 25, 2008 7:57 pm

Great photos! Ybarra's initial blueprint called for the pallisade to be constructed of two parallel rows of cedar posts, 8" to 10" on center, 10' long with each row, 5' in distance from the other with the space between filled with dirt.

With regard to the metal 'pots", several of the stuntmen described situtations where the explosions either mis-fired or fired too soon, resulting in numerous unexpected injuries and surprises.
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Re: The Film Set & Location.

Postby NefariousNed on Tue Nov 25, 2008 8:11 pm

Craig should remember those pots from Price Of Freedom. When we were assaulting the north wall as soldados, the pots would go off without warning, with reenactors charging right into them. It was explained later that this was due to wanting to get a more natural shot. If the reenactors knew where the charges were set, they would've veered around them on camera and spoiled the shot. Well, thanks a lot for the explanation!
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Re: The Film Set & Location.

Postby RLC-GTT on Wed Nov 26, 2008 2:33 am

Nefarious wrote:Craig should remember those pots from Price Of Freedom. When we were assaulting the north wall as soldados, the pots would go off without warning, with reenactors charging right into them. It was explained later that this was due to wanting to get a more natural shot. If the reenactors knew where the charges were set, they would've veered around them on camera and spoiled the shot. Well, thanks a lot for the explanation!


This is scary stuff. No film that I've been around since then failed with safety concerns like this -- except the horrendous Once Upon a Time in China and America in 1996-7, and they had OSHA hot on their trail several times.
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Re: The Film Set & Location.

Postby RLC-GTT on Wed Nov 26, 2008 2:44 am

Chaska wrote:It's time for another of my favorite photos of the set that I doubt many have seen before:
Image


Thanks Craig. You win with me. I have not seen this before. It appears to be one of the photos for the Main Title paintings. I have a 35 mm. slide (original, I believe) that is likewise and is the angle used for the painting which was used for the Life Magazine gatefold ad. On the frame in pencil is marked "Main Title." Boy, I wish all nine Main Title paintings were available as prints. I love 'em.
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Re: The Film Set & Location.

Postby Chaska on Sun Dec 07, 2008 8:30 pm

I do remember those events well, Nef and Rich. We could all tell a few other stories illustrating how hazardous it occasionally was to participate in the making of APOF, but that should probably go on the Price of Freedom thread.

Now for another favorite shot, that could go under "Scenes from the Movie" I suppose, but the image of the church is so striking it also belongs here:
Image
Against one heck of a backdrop, Travis confronts the garrison...
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Re: The Film Set & Location.

Postby Davy on Sun Dec 07, 2008 8:46 pm

Man what a clear beautumous shot! :o

Great one Craigster! Thanx!

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Re: The Film Set & Location.

Postby MUSTANG on Sun Dec 07, 2008 9:24 pm

Wonderful as usual Craig!
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Re: The Film Set & Location.

Postby Rick on Sun Dec 07, 2008 9:27 pm

Ah, the Waynamo we all know and love (with undarkened limestone).
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Re: The Film Set & Location.

Postby AlamoMo on Sun Dec 07, 2008 9:29 pm

DITTO Rick

A superb photograph indeed

Many thanks for posting it

Regards

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Re: The Film Set & Location.

Postby RLC-GTT on Mon Dec 08, 2008 2:27 am

Image


I can hear the music cue now: Bum-ba-da-dum.... da-dum!
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Re: The Film Set & Location.

Postby Seguin on Mon Dec 08, 2008 4:08 am

Great pic, with the cross, the cannon and the Sentry on top of the church!
Thanks, Chaska...
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Re: The Film Set & Location.

Postby Chaska on Mon Dec 08, 2008 9:23 am

You're welcome guys. Here's another:
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Re: The Film Set & Location.

Postby henrywarnell on Mon Dec 08, 2008 2:43 pm

They are wonderfully detailed pictures Chaska, and black and white, my favourite colour's ;) Would you mind if I use one of them for a desk top background?
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Re: The Film Set & Location.

Postby Reb_Al on Mon Dec 08, 2008 4:31 pm

Color is color but a good black/white shot is something really special, thanks for posting these magnificent pictures.
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Re: The Film Set & Location.

Postby Chaska on Wed Jan 28, 2009 12:22 am

It's been pointed out before that there are a lot of crosses in the Waynamo - but does anybody have an explanation for this one?
Image
Look atop the connecting wall to the left of the church - there appears to be a damaged iron cross stuck in the top of the wall!
Image
Has anybody noticed this before? Does anyone recall any other scenes where it appears?
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Re: The Film Set & Location.

Postby NefariousNed on Wed Jan 28, 2009 1:51 am

Now that is curious, Chaska. Almost looks like a weather vane. Oh well, time again to break out the Director's Cut and check it out. Sigh. :| Almost hate to do it. Such a chore.
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Re: The Film Set & Location.

Postby Seguin on Wed Jan 28, 2009 5:20 am

Almost looks like a weather vane.


More so than a cross, I think. Perhaps we can see it from some other angles in the Waynamo...
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Re: The Film Set & Location.

Postby JB BOOKS on Thu Jan 29, 2009 6:30 am

RLC-GTT wrote:
Chaska wrote:It's time for another of my favorite photos of the set that I doubt many have seen before:
Image


Thanks Craig. You win with me. I have not seen this before. It appears to be one of the photos for the Main Title paintings. I have a 35 mm. slide (original, I believe) that is likewise and is the angle used for the painting which was used for the Life Magazine gatefold ad. On the frame in pencil is marked "Main Title." Boy, I wish all nine Main Title paintings were available as prints. I love 'em.



I never noticed it before, but it looks like a Santo in the left upper niche. Actually, it appears that Ybarra had the Santos sort of painted into the niches and let them half fade away.

The one on the upper left is even missing its head.
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Re: The Film Set & Location.

Postby Chaska on Thu Jan 29, 2009 7:31 pm

Sharp eyes for a codger like you! Comes from years of staring at details in Waynamo stills. (Makes distance vision crap though, doesn't it?)

Ybarra ideed painted silhouettes of saints in the niches; but what I've never been able to decide is: were the images intended to represent "ghosts" of statues (like the lighter or darker rectangle of wall color left behind a framed picture when it is removed after many years), or were they supposed to be faded paintings of saints? I lean more to the former explanation though...
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Re: The Film Set & Location.

Postby Fargo Fenwyck on Thu Jan 29, 2009 9:45 pm

Couple of things.... That cross is NOT in earlier pictures. I'm guessing it may be some sort of sound equipment. It may be the angle shown that gives the apperance of a cross. Check out the BW photo on page 7 with Travis infront of Chapel. Also I agree the shadows on the chapel are there for weathered effect as was stated with the removal of a picture on a wall.
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Re: The Film Set & Location.

Postby Seguin on Fri Jan 30, 2009 3:19 am

I'm guessing it may be some sort of sound equipment.


It looks a bit like a loudspeaker on a pole, I think. Did they use loudspeakers to instruct the actors and extra´s in the battle scenes?
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Re: The Film Set & Location.

Postby RLC-GTT on Fri Jan 30, 2009 4:07 am

It doesn't look lile any equipment I'm familiar with, but I WOULD guess equipment of some sort. Remember, this shot is not from the film. It is a stills photographer's photo from a different angle. Folks often get confused by this. I've had tourists comment on the cattle truck in one scene when, in fact, it was in a high angle photo of the storming of the barricade. Having never seen the "schoolbus," I have ruminated over whether it could be something like this. The Sound of Music was rumored to have a scene (during "Do Re Mi") where a crate containing fruit had a label on it with a country name that didn't exist yet when the story took place. In reality, that only appeared in a still -- not in the movie, shot from a different angle.
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