GONE TO TEXAS (1986)

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Re: GONE TO TEXAS (1986)

Postby NefariousNed on Wed Apr 24, 2013 9:23 pm

Travis247 wrote:Hate to sound stupid here, but Houston (Sam Elliott) tells Bowie in GTT " the best thing you can do is burn that mission-its a death trap" where as Richard Boones Houston tells Travis-"you people right here on the Rio Grande are going have to buy me that time". What the heck was the actual order and from who to hold up in the mission and try to hold San Antonio?
Too many variations.
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Without my referring to Hansen, Houston had written Bowie in January, 1836 advising him to go to San Antonio and take appraisal of the situation there, destroy the fortifications in Bejar, and then, if he though best, blow up the Alamo. In a February 2, 1836 letter to Governor Henry Smith, Bowie reiterated Houston's orders, but noted that Bejar should be defended, as it served as "the frontier picquet guard between Santa Anna and the Colonies." Bowie concluded that he and Colonel Neil had reached a solemn resolution that they would "rather die in these ditches than give it up to the enemy." So it was Jim Bowie, and not Travis who first resolved to hold the Alamo. Travis later agreed with him. No actual orders from either Houston, or the Governor were ever given to either hold, or destroy the Alamo.
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Re: GONE TO TEXAS (1986)

Postby RLC-GTT on Wed Apr 24, 2013 9:25 pm

After the battle, Houston claimed that he "ordered" Bowie to go to Bexar and destroy the Alamo, and that, because Bowie disobeyed the "order," they all died there, proving Houston's point about not "being holed up in forts." Until two decades or so ago, Houston's goal had been achieved. All historians believed Bowie disobeyed Houston's order and got them all killed as a result. This was the going belief when Frank Dobbs wrote the script for Gone To Texas in the mid-seventies and seems to have not changed by the time the TV movie was made from the script in 1986, even though historians were taking a more careful look by then.

What we now know is that Houston did no such thing as "order" Bowie to destroy the fort. Houston's report of January 17, 1836, from Goliad to provisional Governor Henry Smith in San Felipe de Austin when he sent Bowie was as follows:

"Colonel Bowie will leave here in a few hours for Bexar with a detachment of from thirty to fifty men... I have ordered the fortifications in the town of Bexar to be demolished, and, if you should think well of it, I will remove all the cannon and other munitions of war to Gonzales and Copano, blow up the Alamo and abandon the place, as it will be impossible to keep up the Station with volunteers, the sooner I can be authorized the better it will be for the country." [Papers of the Texas Revolution, John H. Jenkins, Vol. 4, page 46]

Houston did not want to take that step without the governor's approval, which would take a week at least, and thus did not give such an order to Bowie. The comment, "I have ordered the fortifications in the town of Bexar to be demolished..." has absolutely nothing to do with the Alamo. He simply meant that he ordered Bowie to destroy the street batteries and other fortifications of General Cos that were still in place from the battle of Bexar over a month before.

Colonel Neill and Bowie did as ordered, destroying the fordifications on Plaza de las Islas and moving all the cannon up to the Alamo until the governor's decision would be forthcoming.
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Re: GONE TO TEXAS (1986)

Postby RLC-GTT on Wed Apr 24, 2013 9:39 pm

Interestingly, John Lee Hancock's screenplay corrected this Houston-innitiated myth. He has Houston request of Bowie that he destroy it all and remove the cannon. No order. It is not beyond the realm of possibility that Houston could have told Bowie that, hoping that Bowie would do it on his own without orders and achieve Houston's goal, with Sam never having to stick his neck out. But no evidence for this exists. John also added the touch that Bowie equated Bexar with his "home" and that the decision on Bowie's part to not pull out the cannon was because they "defend my home..." IMO, Bowie would have very possibly felt this emotion, but I doubt he would have made any official or non-official decision based on it.

As a script point however, John Lee's version is much more accurate than Frank Dobbs' version, and yet Frank was writing what was believed at the time, and thus historically accurate as far as he knew.
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Re: GONE TO TEXAS (1986)

Postby K Hale on Thu Apr 25, 2013 3:07 am

Nefarious wrote: So it was Jim Bowie, and not Travis who first resolved to hold the Alamo. Travis later agreed with him.

Image
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Re: GONE TO TEXAS (1986)

Postby RLC-GTT on Thu Apr 25, 2013 3:42 am

Charles Foster Kane likes it. ;)

(But wait! Remember who he's clapping for and why!)
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Re: GONE TO TEXAS (1986)

Postby K Hale on Thu Apr 25, 2013 4:14 am

RLC-GTT wrote:Charles Foster Kane likes it. ;)

(But wait! Remember who he's clapping for and why!)

I have no idea. I just like the picture.
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Re: GONE TO TEXAS (1986)

Postby NefariousNed on Wed Feb 12, 2014 9:00 pm

Sam Houston (Sam Elliott) arrives in San Felipe (Back Street at Alamo Village) to set up a law practice in Gone To Texas", 1986. Isn't that Steve Abolt
standing against the wall behind Elliott?
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Re: GONE TO TEXAS (1986)

Postby RLC-GTT on Thu Feb 13, 2014 4:42 am

NefariousNed wrote:Sam Houston (Sam Elliott) arrives in San Felipe (Back Street at Alamo Village) to set up a law practice in Gone To Texas", 1986. Isn't that Steve Abolt standing against the wall behind Elliott?



Looks like him. Size and shape is as...... (Never mind.)
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Re: GONE TO TEXAS (1986)

Postby NefariousNed on Tue Sep 08, 2015 7:35 pm

Ran into stuntman , actor Wally Welch at the Post Office today. Some of you may remember Wally as Ranger Ikey Ripple in the "Lonesome Dove"
prequel, "Comanche Moon" (2008). I remember Wally from my time as a reenactor on the set of the 1987 TV movie about Sam Houston, "Gone
To Texas". In the film, Welch stunt-doubled for Sam Elliot who starred in the leading role. While Welch was waiting to pick up a parcel at the Post
Office window, I chatted with him a few minutes about life on the set. "When you were in the Sam Houston outfit, you looked so much like Elliott,"
I said. "Yes," Wally quipped with a grin, "I am sometimes known as the 'Poor Man's Sam Elliott".
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Re: GONE TO TEXAS (1986)

Postby RLC-GTT on Wed Sep 09, 2015 12:29 am

I remember him. Bumped into him at a SXSW Film Festival opening party in Austin over a decade ago. (Ned, can you un-morph that second picture? Wha-happened?)
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Re: GONE TO TEXAS (1986)

Postby NefariousNed on Wed Sep 09, 2015 4:12 pm

No flash on that one, Rich. Here's one with flash.

If you're wondering why Wally looks that tall and slim, he really is.

(Of course, I was crouched down on the floor shooting up at him,
so he my appear a mite taller in the photo. If I didn't crouch down,
I couldn't get all of him in frame.)
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Re: GONE TO TEXAS (1986)

Postby RLC-GTT on Wed Sep 09, 2015 7:16 pm

I guess so. The mail boxes have the same dimensions in both pictures. It must be because you zoomed way out to a wide angle to get his whole body in the shot from about the same distance. Traditionally, extreme wide angle lenses are highly uncomplimentary for people shots, but that is generally for close up head and shoulder shots -- makes them look very fish-faced. But I've never seen the effect in full length body shots until now. It really does appear to be a squeezed image -- and yes, I know he's lanky, but that would have been true for the first picture too. ;)
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Re: GONE TO TEXAS (1986)

Postby NefariousNed on Wed Oct 14, 2015 12:44 am

Image
Sam Elliott sits on the edge of the tailgate, while his stunt double, Wally Welch, sits in the center.
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Re: GONE TO TEXAS (1986)

Postby RLC-GTT on Wed Oct 14, 2015 5:05 am

Are you sure you don't have that backwards? Looks like Elliott in the middle, and that guy on the left sure doesn't look like Elliott.
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Re: GONE TO TEXAS (1986)

Postby SantaClaus on Wed Oct 14, 2015 5:17 am

NefariousNed wrote:Image
Sam Elliott sits on the edge of the tailgate, while his stunt double, Wally Welch, sits in the center.


Why is there a ventriloquist in the background to the right? ;)
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Re: GONE TO TEXAS (1986)

Postby NefariousNed on Thu Jan 21, 2016 6:46 am

Filming the death of General Castrillon at San Jacinto. Benjamin Rusk attempts to stop the Texians who are firing on Castrillon.
(The hatless Mexican actor on the far right.)
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Re: GONE TO TEXAS (1986)

Postby NefariousNed on Thu Jan 21, 2016 6:57 am

A break in the action during the filming of the battle of San Jac at the Mud Creek Ranch outside of Del Rio.

From L to R, I recognize Charlie Morfin in big sombrero, Jerry Laing and his famous hat, Bill Chemerka in top hat, and Steve Abolt in
red fringed hunting frock.
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Re: GONE TO TEXAS (1986)

Postby NefariousNed on Thu Jan 21, 2016 9:04 pm

Waynamo chapel dressed for "Gone To Texas" and "13" Days To Glory", 1986.
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Re: GONE TO TEXAS (1986)

Postby NefariousNed on Thu Jan 21, 2016 9:05 pm

With Larry Grimsley atop the rebuilt Travis' Headquarters stairs.
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Re: GONE TO TEXAS (1986)

Postby NefariousNed on Thu Jan 21, 2016 9:09 pm

Inbetween palisades. The "Gone To Texas" one had just been removed so that a new one could be seen being constructed during "13 Days To
Glory".
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Re: GONE TO TEXAS (1986)

Postby NefariousNed on Thu Jan 21, 2016 9:10 pm

By the rebuilt Travis' stairs.
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Re: GONE TO TEXAS (1986)

Postby RLC-GTT on Fri Jan 22, 2016 1:20 am

NefariousNed wrote:Inbetween palisades. The "Gone To Texas" one had just been removed so that a new one could be seen being constructed during "13 Days To
Glory".

Just think, the real palisade was only six feet shy of being twice that long. ;)
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Re: GONE TO TEXAS (1986)

Postby Alamo John UK on Fri Jan 22, 2016 1:45 am

You've perplexed me Mr Curilla ??? :shock: :shock:
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Re: GONE TO TEXAS (1986)

Postby RLC-GTT on Fri Jan 22, 2016 2:31 am

Alamo John UK wrote:You've perplexed me Mr Curilla ??? :shock: :shock:

Hahaha! Not intended. I was just comparing Alamo Village's 60 foot long palisade with the real one in 1836 which was 114 feet long. Remember, the Waynamo is under-scaled.
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Re: GONE TO TEXAS (1986)

Postby cc nolen on Fri Jan 22, 2016 4:44 pm

Nice Pics....Thanks guys
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Re: GONE TO TEXAS (1986)

Postby NefariousNed on Mon Apr 10, 2017 4:44 am

This new Battle of San Jacinto diorama in the Bryan Museum in Galveston Texas reminds me a heck of a lot of the Mud
Creek San Jac set location in "Gone To Texas"!
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Re: GONE TO TEXAS (1986)

Postby RLC-GTT on Mon Apr 10, 2017 5:04 am

Still looks that way -- just north of Highway 90. A.J. Foyt owns the property.
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