EVOLUTION OF THE BOWIE KNIFE

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Re: EVOLUTION OF THE BOWIE KNIFE

Postby NefariousNed on Thu Oct 12, 2017 9:26 pm

cc nolen wrote:The thing that gave this FAKE away is - if you look real close at the silver on the spine of
the knife you will notice that the solder ran into the already pitted blade :shock: ....
This means the blade was already antiqued or old when the Searles Silver Plate was installed... ;)

Chris...


Well, this is already kind of general knowledge that the silver was added to the blade about 20 years later
in hopes of bolstering it's tie to Seguin. Could still be an old knife, just messed with. What else have you
got that discredits it?
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Re: EVOLUTION OF THE BOWIE KNIFE

Postby Seguin on Fri Oct 13, 2017 1:48 am

cc nolen wrote:Since we are on a roll about Bowie, and his knives - I have some rather new information to add. *Hans, You may want to sit down for this,
being Seguin. ;) Anyway, many of the Forum Members are familiar with the Juan Seguin Knife. Legend says Seguin left the Alamo on Jim
Bowie's horse and Jim had put one of his knives in the saddlebag for protection. The knife survived the War, and was handed down from
Texas Family, to Family. Then it was put on display at the Texas Ranger Museum in Waco Texas. The big knife had a silver solder plate
on the spine that stated it was made by Searles of Baton Rouge. Daniel Searles is belived to have made knives for the Bowie Family.
From tests on the silver it could only be dated to the 1860s at best. * 24 years after the Alamo. The knife was considered a fake by many.
The last Expert Holdout was James Batson. He believed the handle, and silver solder were put there later to enhance the knife to look
more like it belonged to Bowie. We had lunch together, along with Jack Edmondson a few years ago in Natchez MS. and discussed this
very subject.
Now Mr Batson has come forward saying the knife was a total fake. Maybe even made in the 20th Century.
So it seems we discover something great in this never ending mystery - but we also find we were wrong about certain things as well.* I
had a great replica of the Seguin Knife made, because I gave most every knife the benefit of the doubt when I did the - Bowie Knife,
Fact-Myth-Legend display. Sad to hear its a complete fake. :(


That´s old news we´ve talked about before here in the forum. If I remember correctly, there´s a chance the blade is old. I seem to
remember it was tested and proved to be old. The guard could be old too, taken from an old sword and put on the knife. The silver
solder is new. The fake part is the Seguin engraving. The knife may not have belonged to Seguin, but the blade is still old and maybe
the guard too. So, you could argue it´s an old knife apart from the silver solder, it just may not have belonged to Seguin as the
engraving says.
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Re: EVOLUTION OF THE BOWIE KNIFE

Postby cc nolen on Fri Oct 13, 2017 2:56 pm

I wont scold you two Historians too bad.............but take some time and read again. Dr James Batson the highest authority on steel and its source has NOW - which means over the last few months- has came forth with a statement saying the ENTIRE knife (BLADE and ALL) are NOT OLD at all.
I know we have discussed this before about the handle and the engraving............and before, the blade was still considered OLD and of the 1820 - 30 era!!
NOW it is not!!!!!!!
Thanks....at least I know someone is trying to read these posts. :lol:
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Re: EVOLUTION OF THE BOWIE KNIFE

Postby warren on Fri Oct 13, 2017 4:22 pm

This is a great education! Now a question.

That daguerreotype of James Black. Dags appeared in the US only in the middle of 1839. James Black was born in 1800. So he would have to be a minimum of 39 years old in that picture, and that's assuming he was one of the first to have his picture taken with the new process, in a remote part of the country (the earliest know dag in Texas is of course of the Alamo, thought to date about 1849). Arkansas had its first photographer in 1842. Black, in 1839, been severely beaten by his father-in-law and supposedly wound up with badly damaged eyes , made even worse by the medical attention he sought. But in the photograph, It looks like a relatively young man, without any apparent injuries. So is this really James Black? I wonder what the provenance is.
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Re: EVOLUTION OF THE BOWIE KNIFE

Postby NefariousNed on Fri Oct 13, 2017 8:41 pm

Good one, warren!

Chris, it is not enough that an expert comes up with a statement that something is a complete fake. We need to know how and why he determined it as such.
Why wasn't it determined as such 30 years ago? Were all the knife experts at that time not so expert, after all, or was it so good of a fake that it fooled even
them?
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Re: EVOLUTION OF THE BOWIE KNIFE

Postby Seguin on Sat Oct 14, 2017 3:36 am

I wont scold you two Historians too bad...


Good! I won´t scold you too bad either for not telling us how the knife was tested. :D Is there anything wrong in wanting to know more before we accept the new findings?
I´ve never taken anybody´s word as gospel before having known all the details and I´m not about to start now. I would like to know the details. Did your expert get to have the knife from the current owner to have it tested? Was the blade tested by a metallurgic expert? And how was it done and by whom? And what did the test say as to how old the blade is? What´s the blade made of? That sort of details. Nothing wrong in asking questions and wanting to know more, I hope. Right now we only have your word and you only have your expert´s word. Did he show you the test results and tell you how they were conducted and by whom?

If some expert tells you he´s got a Bowie knife who no doubt belonged to Bowie you would´nt accept it without getting to know all the details first, would you? I sure would´nt.
Now we´re being told not even the blade is old, not that it´s a big deal if the blade is old since we already knew the knife probably never belonged to Seguin and that the silver solder is new and the engravings too. At best the knife is a bastard with only the blade being old and with the rest being new and the Seguin connection probably being a lie. Now we hear the blade may not even be old, but so what? it does´nt make much of a difference when we already suspected everything else was probably faked. It´s not like it´s a big disappointment to find out the blade might not even be old, which we had originally been lead to believe it was.
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Re: EVOLUTION OF THE BOWIE KNIFE

Postby Seguin on Sat Oct 14, 2017 6:22 am

warren wrote:This is a great education! Now a question.

That daguerreotype of James Black. Dags appeared in the US only in the middle of 1839. James Black was born in 1800. So he would have to be a minimum of 39 years old in that picture, and that's assuming he was one of the first to have his picture taken with the new process, in a remote part of the country (the earliest know dag in Texas is of course of the Alamo, thought to date about 1849). Arkansas had its first photographer in 1842. Black, in 1839, been severely beaten by his father-in-law and supposedly wound up with badly damaged eyes , made even worse by the medical attention he sought. But in the photograph, It looks like a relatively young man, without any apparent injuries. So is this really James Black? I wonder what the provenance is.


Good points, warren!
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Re: EVOLUTION OF THE BOWIE KNIFE

Postby SantaClaus on Sat Oct 14, 2017 12:37 pm

cc nolen wrote:James Black is the nice looking young man on the right

I did some research and learned that the man on the left is John White. So, you could say that this image of two men holding knives is a Black & White photograph. And instead of a daguerreotype, call it a "dagger-o-type". Or you could say that I'm making all this up just to get a laugh :lol: or a chuckle :D or maybe a smile :) .
Nothing, eh? :|
Well, can't hit a home run every time. Even the best hitters can swing and miss. :roll:
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Re: EVOLUTION OF THE BOWIE KNIFE

Postby John W Smith on Sat Oct 14, 2017 12:38 pm

The following quote is from an article I wrote about twenty years ago for BLADE magazine discussing the origin of guardless coffin-pommeled Bowie knives.

An 1840's vintage daguerrotype, passed down through the Buzzard family, reportedly depicts James Black and Jacob Buzzard. Black's detractors have argued whether the youthful figure on the right really could be a 40-year-old blind man. Some skeptics, in their overzealousness, have even disputed whether the photograph really is a daguerreotype, or a later vintage ambrotype printed on glass. The picture, absolutely a copper-plated daguerrotype, is displayed at the Arkansas Territorial Restoration (now the Historic Arkansas Museum) in Little Rock.

Ultimately whether it depicts James Black--or both of the Buzzard brothers--or other family members--is an issue of secondary importance. The true significance of the picture is that both of these southwestern Arkansas figures from the 1840's hold guardless, coffin-pommeled Bowie knives. Those two knives might have originated in Cincinnati or New York or Sheffield, but it seems more logical that they came from Black's forge at nearby Washington, Arkansas.
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Re: EVOLUTION OF THE BOWIE KNIFE

Postby warren on Sat Oct 14, 2017 6:38 pm

Very interesting and thanks for that information! I knew I wasn't the only one who wondered about the age. If you have seen that dag yourself, can I ask this question? Undoubtedly they are coffin handle Bowie knifes and I agree that it is more than likely they are from Arkansas. I notice that one knife is larger than the other, and it appears the pin placement in the handles are different. Understandable. But those pins really jump out in that photo. Is it possible they are retouched with either silver or gold? I only ask because I have a number of dags of the Civil War era where buttons and epaulets on the uniforms were retouched, usually with gold paint. All at the time, I would assume. Thanks again!
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Re: EVOLUTION OF THE BOWIE KNIFE

Postby Buckshot on Sat Oct 14, 2017 10:49 pm

John W Smith wrote:The following quote is from an article I wrote about twenty years ago for BLADE magazine discussing the origin of guardless coffin-pommeled Bowie knives.
An 1840's vintage daguerrotype, passed down through the Buzzard family, reportedly depicts James Black and Jacob Buzzard. Black's detractors have argued whether the youthful figure on the right really could be a 40-year-old blind man. Some skeptics, in their overzealousness, have even disputed whether the photograph really is a daguerreotype, or a later vintage ambrotype printed on glass. The picture, absolutely a copper-plated daguerrotype, is displayed at the Arkansas Territorial Restoration (now the Historic Arkansas Museum) in Little Rock.

Ultimately whether it depicts James Black--or both of the Buzzard brothers--or other family members--is an issue of secondary importance. The true significance of the picture is that both of these southwestern Arkansas figures from the 1840's hold guardless, coffin-pommeled Bowie knives. Those two knives might have originated in Cincinnati or New York or Sheffield, but it seems more logical that they came from Black's forge at nearby Washington, Arkansas.


Best explanation of what is known, what may be supposition, and an erudite summation of both!
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Re: EVOLUTION OF THE BOWIE KNIFE

Postby cc nolen on Mon Oct 16, 2017 3:17 pm

Wow! I go to Hunting Camp for 3 days and things get to hopping!
I guess there is more than one way to wake up a thread on the Forum - :lol:
First of all. every major Knife Expert that I know of has already deemed the so called Seguin Knife a TOTAL Fake. Dr James Batson was the only person I know of other than myself that held on to some hope that the blade was of the early 1800s. The handle and guard, plus the name plate on the spine have already been seen as fake from Joe Musso to Mark Zalesky. The engraving has even been ruled as NOT Daniel Searles' of Baton Rouge.
Please remember; there are not a huge number of KNIFE EXPERTS sitting on some big board room table somewhere. It takes many years to get the ones we do have together on something. Once I heard Dr Batson now believes the entire knife in a phony I have to go along with him due to his background as a NASA Scientist, Bladesmith, and Steel Expert.
Hans....My point is; You said this was old news. You must know something I dont....but its NEW news to me. In the Knife world Dr Batson is at the TOP of the few Experts we have. He has studied the knife for years and even used it as a photo on the cover of one of his books. He had strong feelings for the knife.
Another problem is; the owner will not bring the knife forward for anymore tests. It is locked up for now. When Jack and I had lunch with Dr Batson he mentioned some sort of forged steel from South America the knife could have been made from...I assume he has discovered it was not. I will try to contact him and find out more.
As far as Warren's question, I think Jack answered it. The question about the pins is anybody's guess. The pins could have been shining due to light in the setting or maybe enhanced after the photo was processed. Again: I will contact Musso for his answer to the questions. Thanks for the questions...Keep um coming!
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Re: EVOLUTION OF THE BOWIE KNIFE

Postby cc nolen on Mon Oct 16, 2017 3:25 pm

Seguin wrote:
I wont scold you two Historians too bad...


Good! I won´t scold you too bad either for not telling us how the knife was tested. :D Is there anything wrong in wanting to know more before we accept the new findings?
I´ve never taken anybody´s word as gospel before having known all the details and I´m not about to start now. I would like to know the details. Did your expert get to have the knife from the current owner to have it tested? Was the blade tested by a metallurgic expert? And how was it done and by whom? And what did the test say as to how old the blade is? What´s the blade made of? That sort of details. Nothing wrong in asking questions and wanting to know more, I hope. Right now we only have your word and you only have your expert´s word. Did he show you the test results and tell you how they were conducted and by whom?

If some expert tells you he´s got a Bowie knife who no doubt belonged to Bowie you would´nt accept it without getting to know all the details first, would you? I sure would´nt.
Now we´re being told not even the blade is old, not that it´s a big deal if the blade is old since we already knew the knife probably never belonged to Seguin and that the silver solder is new and the engravings too. At best the knife is a bastard with only the blade being old and with the rest being new and the Seguin connection probably being a lie. Now we hear the blade may not even be old, but so what? it does´nt make much of a difference when we already suspected everything else was probably faked. It´s not like it´s a big disappointment to find out the blade might not even be old, which we had originally been lead to believe it was.

You accepted the Seguin Knife with out all the details. :roll:
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Re: EVOLUTION OF THE BOWIE KNIFE

Postby cc nolen on Mon Oct 16, 2017 3:32 pm

I have to wonder where the Metal Tests were on this knife....When an Expert like Musso said it was from the 1830s it was accepted.
Just an example....CN
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Re: EVOLUTION OF THE BOWIE KNIFE

Postby Seguin on Tue Oct 17, 2017 1:23 am

Hans....My point is; You said this was old news. You must know something I dont....but its NEW news to me.


The blade not being old is news, the rest is old news. We have know for a long time the knife was a fake, except that the blade could be old. Now we know not even the blade is old.
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Re: EVOLUTION OF THE BOWIE KNIFE

Postby Seguin on Tue Oct 17, 2017 1:27 am

cc nolen wrote:
Seguin wrote:
I wont scold you two Historians too bad...


Good! I won´t scold you too bad either for not telling us how the knife was tested. :D Is there anything wrong in wanting to know more before we accept the new findings?
I´ve never taken anybody´s word as gospel before having known all the details and I´m not about to start now. I would like to know the details. Did your expert get to have the knife from the current owner to have it tested? Was the blade tested by a metallurgic expert? And how was it done and by whom? And what did the test say as to how old the blade is? What´s the blade made of? That sort of details. Nothing wrong in asking questions and wanting to know more, I hope. Right now we only have your word and you only have your expert´s word. Did he show you the test results and tell you how they were conducted and by whom?

If some expert tells you he´s got a Bowie knife who no doubt belonged to Bowie you would´nt accept it without getting to know all the details first, would you? I sure would´nt.
Now we´re being told not even the blade is old, not that it´s a big deal if the blade is old since we already knew the knife probably never belonged to Seguin and that the silver solder is new and the engravings too. At best the knife is a bastard with only the blade being old and with the rest being new and the Seguin connection probably being a lie. Now we hear the blade may not even be old, but so what? it does´nt make much of a difference when we already suspected everything else was probably faked. It´s not like it´s a big disappointment to find out the blade might not even be old, which we had originally been lead to believe it was.

You accepted the Seguin Knife with out all the details. :roll:


Before we learned it was a fake? We were all told years ago that it was Seguin's knife and accepted it including Texas historians like Jack Jackson. Why wouldn't we? This was before it was called to question. It is not the job of the average person to research each and every claim. Even you believed it - -until told otherwise by the EXPERTS. ;)
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Re: EVOLUTION OF THE BOWIE KNIFE

Postby cc nolen on Tue Oct 17, 2017 2:26 pm

Not that it really matters, but in your post you stated that if someone said they found a or the Bowie Knife No one would accept it to be true. But, we have done it for years. The Seguin Knife has had no kind of metal tests run on it, just the silver solder on the spine was tested.
There are no metal tests on the Bowie # 1, the Searles Fowler, the Schively Perkins, the San Jacinto, the Candaleria, the Bart Moore, the Forrest, the Huber Steel, and the list goes on forever. We still consider them Bowie Knives possibly belonging to the Bowie Family.
We have to depend on Experts to direct us to what is real and what is not. Please feel free to google Dr James Batson. Check him out. Even Joe Musso holds him in the highest respect.
Thus my statement that the knife is a total fake....I stand by it.
Thanks for the discussion. It is good to know we can disagree on some things with out going for each others throat. ;)
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Re: EVOLUTION OF THE BOWIE KNIFE

Postby Seguin on Wed Oct 18, 2017 3:39 am

cc nolen wrote:Not that it really matters, but in your post you stated that if someone said they found a or the Bowie Knife No one would accept it to be true. But, we have done it for years. The Seguin Knife has had no kind of metal tests run on it, just the silver solder on the spine was tested.
There are no metal tests on the Bowie # 1, the Searles Fowler, the Schively Perkins, the San Jacinto, the Candaleria, the Bart Moore, the Forrest, the Huber Steel, and the list goes on forever. We still consider them Bowie Knives possibly belonging to the Bowie Family.
We have to depend on Experts to direct us to what is real and what is not. Please feel free to google Dr James Batson. Check him out. Even Joe Musso holds him in the highest respect.
Thus my statement that the knife is a total fake....I stand by it.
Thanks for the discussion. It is good to know we can disagree on some things with out going for each others throat. ;)
Chris...
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No, I said, "If some expert tells you he´s got a Bowie knife who no doubt belonged to Bowie you would´nt accept it without getting to know all the details first, would you? I sure would´nt."

In the Knife world Dr Batson is at the TOP of the few Experts we have. He has studied the knife for years and even used it as a photo on the cover of one of his books. He had strong feelings for the knife.
Another problem is; the owner will not bring the knife forward for anymore tests. It is locked up for now. When Jack and I had lunch with Dr Batson he mentioned some sort of forged steel from South America the knife could have been made from...I assume he has discovered it was not. I will try to contact him and find out more.


So, Batson have´nt had the blade tested, right? That means we still don´t know for sure if the blade is old or new, right? Of course, if everything else is new, chances are the blade is new too, but we just don´t know since the owner won´t have the knife tested anymore.

Thanks for the discussion. It is good to know we can disagree on some things with out going for each others throat. ;)


Likewise! I would never go for your throat. Your balls, maybe (with a Bowie knife), but not your throat. :D
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Re: EVOLUTION OF THE BOWIE KNIFE

Postby cc nolen on Wed Oct 18, 2017 2:50 pm

Damn Hans, I didnt know you was that way - :shock: ....When I come to Denmark, I'll bring a protector cup! :lol:
And, My trusty Body Guard - :o :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Re: EVOLUTION OF THE BOWIE KNIFE

Postby Seguin on Thu Oct 19, 2017 2:04 am

cc nolen wrote:Damn Hans, I didnt know you was that way - :shock: ....When I come to Denmark, I'll bring a protector cup! :lol:
And, My trusty Body Guard - :o :lol: :lol: :lol:


If you choose this nice suit which have a protector cup you´ll be on the safe side...
unless I bring a can opener. :D
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Re: EVOLUTION OF THE BOWIE KNIFE

Postby cc nolen on Thu Oct 19, 2017 2:30 pm

I will have to bring out the Go Blue Force for that! He needs no weapons! My problem is, when John W Smith is around, he is busy keeping
him out of harms way! :lol: :lol: The Street will be busy in front of Ernie's this March!!! :o
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Re: EVOLUTION OF THE BOWIE KNIFE

Postby Seguin on Fri Oct 20, 2017 5:21 am

cc nolen wrote:I will have to bring out the Go Blue Force for that! He needs no weapons! My problem is, when John W Smith is around, he is busy keeping
him out of harms way! :lol: :lol: The Street will be busy in front of Ernie's this March!!! :o


You need help from Go Blue and John Dubya and their Bowie knives to deal with little innocent me and my can opener? :roll: You just tell them my can opener works on Bowie knives too, because it says so on the warranty! :D
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Re: EVOLUTION OF THE BOWIE KNIFE

Postby cc nolen on Fri Oct 20, 2017 2:59 pm

NO! Not the dreaded Can Opener! :o
Hans, you dont play fair at all! You know a Bowie Knife is No match for the blood curdling Danish Can Opener! :lol:
Jim Bowie is smiling!!!
Have a good week end.........Chris
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Re: EVOLUTION OF THE BOWIE KNIFE

Postby cc nolen on Thu Oct 26, 2017 3:12 pm

I know we have discussed this in the past but lately I have received some email asking where this knife is housed. It is known as the
Schively-Perkins Bowie Knife. It was given to Jesse Perkins by Rezin Bowie. Rezin had Henry Schively of Philadelphia make the knife.
Schively was well known for making medical cutlery.
The knife is on display at the Old Capitol Museum in Jackson Mississippi. Seems a lot of our Forum Members travel I-20 through
Jackson. Stop if you get the time. It is a remarkable knife.
Chris...
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Re: EVOLUTION OF THE BOWIE KNIFE

Postby NefariousNed on Tue Nov 07, 2017 6:20 am

viewtopic.php?f=15&t=1639&start=1200#p178348
Knives from the display in New Braunfels Heritage Village this past weekend.
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Re: EVOLUTION OF THE BOWIE KNIFE

Postby Seguin on Tue Nov 07, 2017 6:22 am

NefariousNed wrote:http://www.johnwayne-thealamo.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=1639&start=1200#p178348
Knives from the display in New Braunfels Heritage Village this past weekend.


Very nice! They should be right up Chris´ alley.
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Re: EVOLUTION OF THE BOWIE KNIFE

Postby cc nolen on Tue Nov 07, 2017 4:23 pm

:lol: Well, I guess I do Hog this Thread. - The pics are real nice Ned. The one knife that is real interesting in the table photo is in the lower right portion of the picture. It has some early castings at the pommel and ferrule. It looks like it has an Ivory slab handle....wish I could have seen the blade.
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Thanks for your time, and work to get us these photos. :? Dinner on me, when I see ya! :D
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Now for some research: --> A couple of pages back we were discussing the Sea of Mud Knife. I had it wrong on the info I posted about the pins. They are silver not brass.
Also, I am digging deep about the statement that I made saying John Bowie was married to Elijah Stewart's daughter. Stewart was a worker at James Black's Forge. I have discovered that John was married to Nancy Scroggins, and then a second time to America Watkins.
I have a message out now to Joe Musso and I will post the findings. --> I also ask Steve Snieder to give input if he reads this post....as well as Jack Edmondson and anyone else who can help with this question....Many thanks in advance. ***More to come.
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Re: EVOLUTION OF THE BOWIE KNIFE

Postby cc nolen on Tue Nov 07, 2017 4:25 pm

I want to thank Dale Lairson, the current owner of the Edwin Forrest Knife, for his help on these questions. --> More to come when I learn it....
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Re: EVOLUTION OF THE BOWIE KNIFE

Postby cc nolen on Tue Nov 07, 2017 7:46 pm

After looking at a close-up of the knife on the table I had mentioned....the slabs are bone and the castings are not very old. Cool looking knife though.
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Re: EVOLUTION OF THE BOWIE KNIFE

Postby Seguin on Fri Nov 17, 2017 7:13 am

A still from a video on Facebook about knives from the ice age. Notice the clip point, like on a Bowie knife.
It´s a video chat with Vegard Vike, archaeological conservator at the Museum of Cultural History. The video shows several examples of knives from the ice age found by archaeologists.

The video can be found here:

https://www.facebook.com/secretsoftheic ... cjIL-H81JM
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Re: EVOLUTION OF THE BOWIE KNIFE

Postby warren on Fri Nov 17, 2017 6:38 pm

Its amazing how much that blade looks like a pocket knife blade. I'll watch that video and thanks!
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Re: EVOLUTION OF THE BOWIE KNIFE

Postby cc nolen on Mon Nov 20, 2017 4:42 pm

Wow! That really drives the final nail in that coffin. A lot of folks believe that the Bowie brothers invented the clip point or
extreme dip in the point of a blade. We know the ancient Greeks, Romans, Spartans, and even the Vikings had clip points
on their weapons. One of the most popular designs through out History has been the Viking Seax. It was a straight back
knife with an extreme clip point.

During the early 1800s most knives had spear points, or just straight backed sweeping blades like a butcher knife.
Legend tells us that Jim designed a knife with the last 4 inches cut down to a sharp point.
The name "Clip Point" came from the sails of the Clipper ships of the day.

We must remember, there was very little communication in those days, and I doubt many folks even knew of Vikings
and Spartans....so, Mr Bowie got credit for the Clip Pointed Bowie Knife. :D The clip was said to be sharp as wel
l as the lower blade so it would cut either way! :o

Maybe John W Smith has some more info on this subject. I will see if he will add information.
Chris...
The most famous Clip Pointed Bowie: :roll:
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Re: EVOLUTION OF THE BOWIE KNIFE

Postby Seguin on Tue Nov 21, 2017 4:42 am

A couple of viking seax (replicas). The first one is made of Damascus steel.
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Re: EVOLUTION OF THE BOWIE KNIFE

Postby cc nolen on Tue Nov 21, 2017 3:26 pm

Even though they are not as attractive as the sweeping clip pointed blades of the early 1830s and on into the Civil War, they are great choppers.
If you watch Forged in Fire on the History Channel, you will notice they make a lot of Seax's due to the strength and ease of the design.
Nice pics Hans. Thanks
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Re: EVOLUTION OF THE BOWIE KNIFE

Postby cc nolen on Tue Nov 21, 2017 3:30 pm

Another great Clip Pointed Bowie is the Ables # 1. It was the pride of famous collector, Robert Ables. His #2 knife was the Charles Congreve Bowie.
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(photo is a replica)
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Re: EVOLUTION OF THE BOWIE KNIFE

Postby cc nolen on Tue Nov 21, 2017 3:33 pm

This is the actual Congreve Clip Bowie....circa; 1834
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Re: EVOLUTION OF THE BOWIE KNIFE

Postby cc nolen on Tue Nov 21, 2017 3:34 pm

Top 3 from Ables' Book.... :D All have sweeping clip points....enjoy
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Re: EVOLUTION OF THE BOWIE KNIFE

Postby Seguin on Wed Nov 22, 2017 3:49 am

Great looking Bowie knives (I never cared for stag hilts, but that´s just me). I like the shape of the blade on Ables #1.
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Re: EVOLUTION OF THE BOWIE KNIFE

Postby NefariousNed on Wed Nov 22, 2017 5:49 am

Would a scimitar be considered a clip point, or double clip point? At any rate, the style
has been around for years. Might the Bowie Brothers have read "The Arabian Knights"?
I'm sure Travis and Houston probably did.
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Re: EVOLUTION OF THE BOWIE KNIFE

Postby warren on Wed Nov 22, 2017 7:23 pm

Chris - Is that a maker's mark in your color picture of Able's No. 1, and what does it say or represent? From first glance, It is very similar in looks and location on that weird knife I found that had the three brass studs in the blade.
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