EVOLUTION OF THE BOWIE KNIFE

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Re: EVOLUTION OF THE BOWIE KNIFE

Postby Seguin on Thu Nov 23, 2017 4:56 am

NefariousNed wrote:Would a scimitar be considered a clip point, or double clip point? At any rate, the style
has been around for years. Might the Bowie Brothers have read "The Arabian Knights"?
I'm sure Travis and Houston probably did.


I should think there can only be one clip point on a knife or scimitar. Pretty cool blade on that scimitar!
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Re: EVOLUTION OF THE BOWIE KNIFE

Postby cc nolen on Fri Nov 24, 2017 4:11 pm

warren wrote:Chris - Is that a maker's mark in your color picture of Able's No. 1, and what does it say or represent? From first glance, It is very similar in looks and location on that weird knife I found that had the three brass studs in the blade.

Warren; the photo I posted of the famous Ables # 1 is a replica of the original.
The hallmark you see on the blade is a RM. The knife was made for me by Rich McDonald of Hillsboro OH.
Here is the original Ables # 1. Enjoy...
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Re: EVOLUTION OF THE BOWIE KNIFE

Postby cc nolen on Fri Nov 24, 2017 4:18 pm

NefariousNed wrote:Would a scimitar be considered a clip point, or double clip point? At any rate, the style
has been around for years. Might the Bowie Brothers have read "The Arabian Knights"?
I'm sure Travis and Houston probably did.

Sure would Ned. Thats a good looking sword.
The whole idea of James Bowie or Rezin Bowie inventing the "clip" point is just another Myth in the Bowie saga.
Chris...
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Re: EVOLUTION OF THE BOWIE KNIFE

Postby cc nolen on Mon Nov 27, 2017 3:45 pm

There has been a book printed about the enormous Bowie Knife Display at the Historic Arkansas Museum (HAM) ~ in Little Rock back in 2014.
It was put together by Mark Zalesky and Bill Worthen. Most of you know Mark Z. is the editor of KNIFE MAGAZINE and Bill just retired as Curator
of the HAM.
--> There will be a book signing this coming Sunday (Dec. 3rd.) at the HAM from 1:pm - 4:pm.
Mark will have some of his antique knives on display, and I will have around 20 replicas also. --> The Museum is quite a place to see as well.
Join us if you can.
Chris...
PS: Right now I have no info on how to purchase a copy of the book. You can contact the Historic Arkansas Museum for details.
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Re: EVOLUTION OF THE BOWIE KNIFE

Postby cc nolen on Tue Nov 28, 2017 3:26 pm

Here is the information on the Historic Arkansas Museum in Little Rock.
H.A.M.
200 East Third Street
Little Rock, Arkansas. 72201
Phone: 501-324-9351

Book Signing; Sunday, December 3rd from 1:pm - 4:pm
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Re: EVOLUTION OF THE BOWIE KNIFE

Postby Seguin on Wed Nov 29, 2017 7:00 am

cc nolen wrote:There has been a book printed about the enormous Bowie Knife Display at the Historic Arkansas Museum (HAM) ~ in Little Rock back in 2014.
It was put together by Mark Zalesky and Bill Worthen. Most of you know Mark Z. is the editor of KNIFE MAGAZINE and Bill just retired as Curator
of the HAM.
--> There will be a book signing this coming Sunday (Dec. 3rd.) at the HAM from 1:pm - 4:pm.
Mark will have some of his antique knives on display, and I will have around 20 replicas also. --> The Museum is quite a place to see as well.
Join us if you can.
Chris...
PS: Right now I have no info on how to purchase a copy of the book. You can contact the Historic Arkansas Museum for details.


That´s great! You´re welcome to post a few pages from the book when you get it.
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Re: EVOLUTION OF THE BOWIE KNIFE

Postby cc nolen on Mon Dec 04, 2017 6:05 pm

cc nolen wrote::lol: Well, I guess I do Hog this Thread. - The pics are real nice Ned. The one knife that is real interesting in the table photo is in the lower right portion of the picture. It has some early castings at the pommel and ferrule. It looks like it has an Ivory slab handle....wish I could have seen the blade.
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Thanks for your time, and work to get us these photos. :? Dinner on me, when I see ya! :D
_______________________________
Now for some research: --> A couple of pages back we were discussing the Sea of Mud Knife. I had it wrong on the info I posted about the pins. They are silver not brass.
Also, I am digging deep about the statement that I made saying John Bowie was married to Elijah Stewart's daughter. Stewart was a worker at James Black's Forge. I have discovered that John was married to Nancy Scroggins, and then a second time to America Watkins.
I have a message out now to Joe Musso and I will post the findings. --> I also ask Steve Snieder to give input if he reads this post....as well as Jack Edmondson and anyone else who can help with this question....Many thanks in advance. ***More to come.
Chris...

IT TOOK A WHILE TO GET JOE MUSSO TO SEND ME INFORMATION OF THE WIVES OF JOHN BOWIE. HERE WE GO. :D
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Re: EVOLUTION OF THE BOWIE KNIFE

Postby AlamoAaron on Mon Dec 11, 2017 11:15 pm

Does anyone know the dimensions of the Bowie knife carried by Jason Patric in the 2004 Alamo?
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Re: EVOLUTION OF THE BOWIE KNIFE

Postby cc nolen on Tue Dec 12, 2017 7:44 pm

I surely do.
The Bowie Knife carried by Jason Patrick was modeled after the famous Musso Knife now owned by the Alamo.
It is a little smaller than the Musso Knife.
The 2004 Bowie has a 5 inch handle and a 12 & 3/4 inch blade. The width of the blade at widest point is 3 inches. It has a 4 and 1/2 inch clip and the blade is 3/16 thick with a brass strip of 6 and 3/4 in along the spine.
The S-guard is 5 1/4 across.
Below is a photo of the 2004 copy I had done for me by Rich McDonald of Hillsboro Ohio. Hope this helps.
Chris...
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Re: EVOLUTION OF THE BOWIE KNIFE

Postby cc nolen on Tue Dec 12, 2017 7:46 pm

The 2004 knife in use.......
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Re: EVOLUTION OF THE BOWIE KNIFE

Postby cc nolen on Tue Dec 12, 2017 7:49 pm

This is the knife photograph when it left the shop of Tony Swatton the original maker....Note; it had an antique finish done at the studio by the prop master Don Milolivitch.
Tony Swatton owns Sword and Stone - Hollywood Reproductions...
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Re: EVOLUTION OF THE BOWIE KNIFE

Postby AlamoAaron on Tue Dec 12, 2017 9:32 pm

cc nolen wrote:I surely do.
The Bowie Knife carried by Jason Patrick was modeled after the famous Musso Knife now owned by the Alamo.
It is a little smaller than the Musso Knife.
The 2004 Bowie has a 5 inch handle and a 12 & 3/4 inch blade. The width of the blade at widest point is 3 inches. It has a 4 and 1/2 inch clip and the blade is 3/16 thick with a brass strip of 6 and 3/4 in along the spine.
The S-guard is 5 1/4 across.
Below is a photo of the 2004 copy I had done for me by Rich McDonald of Hillsboro Ohio. Hope this helps.
Chris...


Thanks, Chris!
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Re: EVOLUTION OF THE BOWIE KNIFE

Postby cc nolen on Wed Dec 13, 2017 3:32 pm

You are very welcome...........If you want one made, contact Rich McDonald or Mark Banfield. ;) they are on the Net.
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Re: EVOLUTION OF THE BOWIE KNIFE

Postby cc nolen on Mon Dec 18, 2017 9:13 pm

If you get a chance, pick up a copy of the January edition of KNIFE Magazine. There is an article by Dr James Batson on the first Bowie Knife and some recent discoveries. More to come.
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Re: EVOLUTION OF THE BOWIE KNIFE

Postby cc nolen on Wed Jan 10, 2018 4:56 pm

John W Smith ended up with some beauties after the Holidays. Both made by Alex Daniels
of Alabama. One is a copy of a later style Henry Schively and the other is a replica of a
Broomhead & Thomas Bowie with a Mother of Pearl handle. Enjoy...
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Re: EVOLUTION OF THE BOWIE KNIFE

Postby cc nolen on Wed Jan 10, 2018 4:59 pm

And the Henry Schively by Alex Daniels.
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Re: EVOLUTION OF THE BOWIE KNIFE

Postby Seguin on Thu Jan 11, 2018 9:02 am

cc nolen wrote:John W Smith ended up with some beauties after the Holidays. Both made by Alex Daniels
of Alabama. One is a copy of a later style Henry Schively and the other is a replica of a
Broomhead & Thomas Bowie with a Mother of Pearl handle. Enjoy...


It looks great and so does the Schively. The Mother of Pearl handle looks beautiful, but I think the handle on the Schively fits better in your hand.
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Re: EVOLUTION OF THE BOWIE KNIFE

Postby NefariousNed on Fri Jan 12, 2018 5:57 am

From Steve Bowie:

Knife attributed to Jim Bowie's brother given to Ranger museum

Waco Tribune-Herald
By J.B. SMITH jbsmith@wacotrib.com
Jan 10, 2018
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As a fearsome weapon, the Bowie knife recently donated to the Texas Ranger Hall of Fame and Museum speaks for itself.

It is 17 inches long, with a bison horn hilt and a sturdy high carbon steel blade featuring the “Texas clip” characteristic of
knives made famous by James Bowie, the Alamo hero.

But a closer look at the silverwork on the knife’s scabbard gives a tantalizing sign of its true significance. Engraved in a
flowery script are the words: “R.P. Bowie to Capt. Wm. Y. Lacey.”

That would appear to be Rezin Pleasant Bowie, Jim’s big brother, who helped popularize the Bowie knife in the 1830s and
was known for giving them as gifts. William Lacey, or Lacy, is obscure today but accompanied Jim Bowie in his rambles
around Texas and later served as a Texas revolutionary soldier, a Texas Ranger and mayor of Palestine.

The knife and a folder full of research on it arrived at the museum in December in a FedEx box from Rudolph W. Gleichman,
a Pennsylvania arms collector. Ranger museum officials want to continue researching its authenticity but say it is
potentially a marquee artifact for their collection. It will likely go on display this spring.

“It was a nice Christmas gift for Waco,” museum director Byron Johnson said. “It would be very significant given his
association with his brother and the fact that it’s inscribed to someone who was a Texas Ranger. That makes it very worth-
while for us. I would say it will be one of the treasures we have in the museum.”

Johnson said the authenticity of the knife may never be proven, but so far he sees no reason to doubt it.

Gleichman, a former insurance underwriter who served as president of the Maryland Arms Collectors Association, spent about
$400 for the knife in 1982.

“I bought the thing in the parking lot of a gun show from a picker,” Gleichman said. “I saw it for what I thought it was, an
important item. I spent a year researching it. … It turned out the gentleman who owned the knife was an intimate friend of
the Bowie family. Everything seemed to fall into place.”

Gleichman collected opinions of silversmiths and knife experts and published descriptions of the knife in arms collecting
publications. Around 1988, he also showed it to Gaines DeGraffenreid, founding director of Waco’s Ranger museum, who was
impressed and hinted that the museum would like to acquire it.

Now 91, Gleichman decided he was ready to part with his treasures.

“I don’t need money per se,” he said. “I just thought it would be wonderful since the gentleman who owned it was an important
person who had a relationship with the Bowie family, it would be nice to give it to the museum that authenticates and collects
these things. … It’s a treasure for anyone’s collection.”

Johnson said the knife’s story may end up like a lot of forensics investigations, based on circumstantial evidence.

He said the artifact has all the marks of a Bowie knife manufactured in the 1830s, when the knife became popular across the
frontier. He said the knife is undated but may precede Jim Bowie’s death at the Alamo in 1836.

Johnson said it would not be unusual to find a forged inscription on a Bowie knife, but it seems unlikely that a forger would
have chosen William Lacy as the recipient.

“There’s only about half a dozen historians who have heard of William Lacy,” he said.

William Lacy, a Kentucky native, moved to San Augustine, Texas, with his father in 1830, according to the 1881 “Encyclopedia
of the New West.”

He was about 18 in 1834, when he headed out to the Tarrant County area with Jim Bowie to prospect for gold.

By this time Bowie and his knife were already a legend thanks to the notorious “Sandbar Fight” on Sept. 19, 1827, across the
Mississippi River from Natchez. Bowie, who was a second to one party in a duel, ended up being attacked himself by the other
party. Using a large hunting knife, he reputedly killed one opponent, badly wounded another and was hospitalized for a shot to
the lung.

Bowie family lore holds that R.P. Bowie had invented the knife several years earlier on their plantation in Louisiana after Jim’s
encounter with a rogue bull. The handle guard was intended to keep the blade from slipping and injuring the hand.

The knife became popular throughout the country immediately after the Sandbar fight, and R.P. Bowie had blades forged in
Louisiana and Pennsylvania. Four other knives that R.P. Bowie inscribed as gifts to friends are known to exist.

Jim Bowie moved into Texas in 1830 to snap up land grants from the Mexican government and hunt for gold.

During the Texas Revolution in 1835-36, he won lasting fame as a military leader, dying in the siege of the Alamo in San Antonio.

Lacy briefly served as a captain in the revolution, then went on to organize Texas Ranger militias in East Texas in 1837. He
surveyed parts of East Texas and went on to become a prosperous landowner and mayor in Palestine after the Civil War. He
died in 1892.

In later life he remembered Jim Bowie as a gentleman “with no trace whatever of the border ruffian that these same wild tales
have handed down to us.”

Nothing is known of what happened to the knife before or after Lacy’s death, if in fact it belonged to him.

Gleichman said that mystery has always been an intriguing part of owning the knife.

“I’ve looked at it a million times and said, ‘If you could just tell me your background history, what you’ve been through,’” he said.
“That’s one of the things that just grabs you.”
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Re: EVOLUTION OF THE BOWIE KNIFE

Postby cc nolen on Fri Jan 12, 2018 4:08 pm

Wow! Just when You think you have all the knives associated with the Bowie Family discovered, another one shows up. :lol:
I am trying to get it where I can bring a couple of my Grandsons to Bexar in May. I now look forward to seeing the knife at the Ranger Museum in Waco. Hope they will have it on display by then.
Thanks Ned, for posting this.
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Re: EVOLUTION OF THE BOWIE KNIFE

Postby cc nolen on Fri Jan 12, 2018 4:28 pm

cc nolen wrote:Wow! Just when You think you have all the knives associated with the Bowie Family discovered, another one shows up. :lol:
I am trying to get it where I can bring a couple of my Grandsons to Bexar in May. I now look forward to seeing the knife at the Ranger Museum in Waco. Hope they will have it on display by then.
Thanks Ned, for posting this.
Chris...

:lol: :lol: Warren! Ned sure got me! ~ # 4 has happened. :lol:
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Re: EVOLUTION OF THE BOWIE KNIFE

Postby warren on Fri Jan 12, 2018 8:12 pm

Yep - Ned did a fine pinch-hit for me. Scratch that one off the list. Now, where are those damn cannons?
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Re: EVOLUTION OF THE BOWIE KNIFE

Postby NefariousNed on Fri Jan 12, 2018 8:16 pm

A 1983 article on the Lacey knife provided to Chris Nolen by Mark Zalesky.
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Re: EVOLUTION OF THE BOWIE KNIFE

Postby RLC-GTT on Fri Jan 12, 2018 10:09 pm

How cool is THAT!
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Re: EVOLUTION OF THE BOWIE KNIFE

Postby Seguin on Sat Jan 13, 2018 4:21 am

NefariousNed wrote:A 1983 article on the Lacey knife provided to Chris Nolen by Mark Zalesky.


Amazing! It´s not often we get to see such a large Bowie knife. It looks like the knife has been well known at least since 1982 when Gleichman bought it, but it´s great the owner donated it to the museum so that everybody interested can get to see it.
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Re: EVOLUTION OF THE BOWIE KNIFE

Postby Mark D. Zalesky on Sun Jan 14, 2018 5:18 pm

Hi folks. I don't have time to play the mythbuster to everyone's satisfaction right now, but someone needs to point out that this knife is not consistent with bowie knives made while Rezin was alive. Not in terms of style, not in terms of construction, not (it seems) in terms of materials.

On top of that, I'm told that "Lacey" is correctly spelled Lacy, and that there's a very obvious source for the misspelled name. (Thank goodness for those whose mistakes have proven beneficial to us in later years.)

Anyone who collects guns or knives from 19th century America will encounter many objects of this nature -- objects that seem like they could be authentic to the untrained eye, or even actual authentic objects -- engraved or otherwise marked with names that seem to establish provenance for them. Sometimes the names are pulled from history, sometimes they're just made up. Sometimes they come with stacks of 'documentation' or certificates of authenticity. The reason the unscrupulous do this is because it WORKS -- the gullible want to believe the story, and there are enough true believers out there willing to lay down hard cash for such objects as to make their production profitable. This was as true in 1982, or 1962, as it is today.

You've probably heard of "Buy the knife, not the story." (or something similar). That's what I'm talking about.

I hope that the museum will let a couple of people who really know antique knives take a look at it before they try to publicize it any further. All we need is one MORE knife with bogus provenance out there to confuse people, supported by modern articles purporting it to be authentic.

Mark
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Re: EVOLUTION OF THE BOWIE KNIFE

Postby Seguin on Mon Jan 15, 2018 11:23 am

I don't have time to play the mythbuster to everyone's satisfaction right now, but someone needs to point out that this knife is not consistent with bowie knives made while Rezin was alive. Not in terms of style, not in terms of construction, not (it seems) in terms of materials.


So, it´s probably just a clever fake using the name of Rezin Bowie. Damn!
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Re: EVOLUTION OF THE BOWIE KNIFE

Postby cc nolen on Mon Jan 15, 2018 3:49 pm

While I have never seen an antique handle like the one on this knife, I have seen Mexican knives with the general shape.
The blade is consistent with some early Knives made by Broomhead & Thomas, as well as Charles Congreve. (Sheffield)
The knife looks like a Civil War knife to me. (IMHO)
I dont think Mark is saying it is a total fake (?) but that he hopes the Museum will have Experts examine the knife and
give opinions. After the issues The Texas Ranger Museum had with the Juan Seguin Knife, I hope they will take a close
look at this knife.
Remember: there was NO money exchanged for this knife. Just an old collector looking for a home for his knife.
This has just been my opinion.
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Re: EVOLUTION OF THE BOWIE KNIFE

Postby Mark D. Zalesky on Tue Jan 16, 2018 5:52 pm

Well I'm back, briefly, by request...
cc nolen wrote:I dont think Mark is saying it is a total fake (?) but that he hopes the Museum will have Experts examine the knife and give opinions.

Well, I don't think the knife dates back far enough to have been around when Rezin was alive -- making the knife's connection to Rezin Bowie, and Lacy, out of the question. My opinion. It is POSSIBLE the knife is 50 or 100 or even 125 years old, and that parts of it could even be a bit older, but even if that were the case, the engraving could have been added in 1982. And it looks like it doesn't belong.

cc nolen wrote:Remember: there was NO money exchanged for this knife. Just an old collector looking for a home for his knife.

True, but one can also look at it this way -- this knife was first publicized as a Rezin Bowie knife in 1982, that's 36 years ago now. Maybe there's a good reason that it never got any traction, or that the knife wasn't sold for big money.

I was asked to convey the following information about the knife. This comes from Dale Larson, who owns the Edwin Forrest knife and is one of the most capable and determined researchers I've ever met. Dale is preparing a new book that examines (in great detail) not only the Forrest knife, but all sorts of knives and related stories and such connected with the Bowie brothers. Those who are seriously interested in the knives (and purported knives) of the Bowie brothers will be blown away with everything he's uncovered. You can take the following as a sample, I think...

In addition to the questions about the knife itself in terms of style, construction, and materials, the inscription itself raises additional questions. And the circumstantial evidence, such as it is, is not helpful to the claim.

Texas Ranger Hall of Fame and Museum director Byron Johnson suggests that it is unlikely that a forger would have chosen William Lacy as the recipient, because “There’s only about half a dozen historians who have heard of William Lacy.” Actually Lacy is perfect candidate for a forgery: someone reasonably obscure but mentioned by Lucy Bowie in her famous paper as a friend of James Bowie. This mention comes after she says that Rezin liked to give away knives and quotes the inscription on the Fowler knife, which is also illustrated. He is the only possible candidate mentioned in her paper, since the genuine knives given to the named recipients, if not already known, might surface with proper provenance. Although there is no evidence connecting Lacy to Rezin, the connection to James could be enough for wishful thinker.

Ben Palmer published her paper in The American Arms Collector in 1957, and Abels published it in Classic Bowie Knives in 1967. This is well before the knife was purchased by the present owner and donor in 1982. That was plenty of time to create and “age” an inscription. Furthermore, the Searles Fowler knife was donated to the Alamo in 1951, after which any visitor could have seen the inscription.

Lucy Bowie took her information on Lacy from the entry on “James Bowie” in Vol. IV The National Cyclopedia of American Biography (1895) (pp. 210-211), almost certainly penned by one of the contributors, John Henry Brown, who summarized his earlier article on Bowie in the Encyclopedia of the New West (Speer and Brown, 1881) (p. 436), both in which the name is spelled correctly. Although her papers at the DRT Library include a typescript excerpt from the article, with the name correctly spelled, in her paper she misspelled it.

The entry on Capt. Lacy in the Encyclopedia of the New West (pp. 442-443) says Lacy was born in Kentucky and came to Texas in 1830 at age 16. Later it says:
“Captain Lacy’s next experience began with his joining Captain Blount’s company at Nacogdoches in May, 1836. They joined the army under General Rusk, at Victoria and served until the disbandment of the whole force in February, 1837. But on the 24th of May, 1836, he was appointed first-lieutenant of Captain Tom Robbins’ company…. Captain Robbins was killed in an Indian fight, and he succeeded to the command of the company and so remained till the disbandment.” (p. 442)

We don’t know when he was promoted to Captain, but certainly not before May 24, 1836. If genuine, the knife would have to have been given at some point after his promotion to Captain.

There is no evidence that Rezin Bowie was in Texas in or after 1836, and no evidence that Lacy ever went to Louisiana. According to the ENW (pp. 442-443) he was fighting Indians in Texas in 1838 and 1839 and worked as surveyor from 1838 to 1841. The July 12, 1836 New York Herald says Rezin was then living in Donaldsonville, LA and already “half blind.” He died in New Orleans on January 17, 1841, just a week after Lacy got married in Nacogdoches. While some late April 1836 newspapers mention Rezin’s involvement with a plan to assemble a large group of volunteers to go to Texas to help with the fight, the Battle of San Jacinto on April 21, 1836 made that proposed venture unnecessary. A few months later Rezin was in Cuba chasing the Pintado land survey papers.

Lacy says he was with James Bowie for eight months in 1834 in Texas [when he would have been 20], (ENW, p. 436). The fact that he knew James Bowie in Texas is not evidence he knew or ever met Rezin or any other of the Bowies. Lacy says nothing about Rezin, and he wasn’t a Captain then in any case.

The inscription on the Lacey knife mimics the Fowler knife's in form and script, which, as noted, was both described and illustrated in Lucy’s article. Even if the knife and scabbard are old, the inscription appears “inspired” by the Fowler knife inscription. With the Fowler knife as a model a faker could easily inscribe an old silver throat, or make a new one, inscribe it, and then age it. In his book How Do You Know Its Old, Harold Peterson explains how silver can be tarnished with a form of sulphur to develop a convincing patination (p. 61). The scribe’s mistake was using Lucy Bowie as a guide. He copied Lucy's misspelled reference to “Captain Wm. Y. Lacey.” Whether or not Lacy himself or anyone else ever used this spelling is beside the point. This is the only place that spelling appears in relation to any Bowie, which argues that Lucy’s paper was the source.


Mark
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Re: EVOLUTION OF THE BOWIE KNIFE

Postby GoBlue on Wed Jan 17, 2018 11:28 am

Mark, I want to thank you first for your expertise on all knife matters and also to give you my seal of approval on your new book A SURE DEFENSE: THE BOWIE KNIFE IN AMERICA. I recommend everybody that is interested in Bowie Knives to pick a copy of this larger than life book up. Contact: Historic Arkansas Museum in Little Rock, Arkansas. Go to their web site to order.
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Re: EVOLUTION OF THE BOWIE KNIFE

Postby cc nolen on Wed Jan 17, 2018 5:21 pm

Ater looking through miles of photos and information yesterday
I was not able to find an antique knife either Mexican or
American that had a handle constructed like the Lacey/Lacy
Knife. Although there are some Mexican made knives that are
similar, they all dated to the late 1800s and early 1900s.
It seems that this Knife in question is someone's creation to
fool folks into believing it is associated with the Bowie Family.
It is ironic that the Texas Ranger Museum is yet on another
track to displaying a Knife made to appear to have provenance
associated with Jim Bowie.

Please remember the Seguin Bowie.
Chris...
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Re: EVOLUTION OF THE BOWIE KNIFE

Postby cc nolen on Thu Jan 18, 2018 5:07 pm

Warren, I dont think you got number 4 quiet completed - yet. :lol:
I dont know how you want to view this situation? There is a Bowie Knife I didnt know about, but what are you calling a Bowie Knife? I'm 99% sure the Lacey Knife is a Dud, but it surely fits in general what we call a Bowie Knife today.
Your call, Amigo.
Keep in mind there are millions of Bowie Knives in this old World...but just a few can be traced to the Bowie Family. :D (like the one below)
Chris...
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Re: EVOLUTION OF THE BOWIE KNIFE

Postby warren on Thu Jan 18, 2018 6:57 pm

Well, Chris...I'm embarrassed. When I saw pictures of the knife in question, I had my doubts, started to post, but was too much of a coward to express them here because the last thing I am is an expert on knives. I have very little knowledge of them except from what I have learned here and in some literature. I thought I would be jumped on, and rightfully so. With all the discussion of provenance, metal testing, dating and the engraving (which I thought was the weakest, even not knowing about the misspelling), I thought I would look like an idiot expressing any sort of opinion. I do know a little bit about forgery and counterfeiting. And I would bet no one on this forum has bought as many counterfeit items as I have, un-intentionally and in some cases, intentionally.

That being said, to this very untrained eye, it looked all wrong and too good to be true. Handle doesn't look right, knife too big, wrong curves. Engraving just seems off, and a heart-warming story to go with it. And as you point out, there are Bowies that big, with those curves, and those that are engraved, but this one doesn't seem to be of the early Republic era. I know I'm sounding like I'm jumping on the bandwagon.

But it is what is known as a Bowie knife, and therefore, #4 is officially off the list!
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Re: EVOLUTION OF THE BOWIE KNIFE

Postby Mark D. Zalesky on Thu Jan 18, 2018 7:28 pm

GoBlue wrote:Mark, I want to thank you first for your expertise on all knife matters and also to give you my seal of approval on your new book A SURE DEFENSE: THE BOWIE KNIFE IN AMERICA. I recommend everybody that is interested in Bowie Knives to pick a copy of this larger than life book up. Contact: Historic Arkansas Museum in Little Rock, Arkansas. Go to their web site to order.

Thank you, very kind of you to say that. I have to say that the response to the book has been very gratifying.

Books can be ordered from Historic Arkansas Museum or from the KNIFE Magazine website (if ordering from the magazine I would be happy to sign for anyone that wants their book defaced.) Also, on February 17th there will be a book signing at the Arkansas Knife Show in Little Rock, and both Bill Worthen and I will be in attendance -- as will the lead photographer, Buddy Thomason. I may even bring a small display of knives from the exhibit.

By the way, the "Lacey" knife story continues to spread. I understand that it was published in today's newspaper in Texarkana.

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Re: EVOLUTION OF THE BOWIE KNIFE

Postby cc nolen on Fri Jan 19, 2018 4:22 pm

I spent some time looking through collected info I had as well as on the Internet looking for the style of handle on the Lacy Knife in question. While there are plenty of Mexican style knives that have the look they seem to only date to the late 1800s and early 1900s.
Below is a photo of a 20th Century Knife with a stacked handle. The style is similar to the Lacy Knife.
** I would like Jack Edmondson and Roger Green to take the short trip to Waco and examine the knife. Jack knows the style and Roger dang sure knows the steel.
Chris...
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